What could Grady do better?

[luckydude]

As you know, I love my 228. But are there things I wish were different? You bet, and here is my list for the 228:

Offer a pilot house version with no eigenglass, just glass windows with a vertical divider rather than the horizontal divider.

Hand rails on the hard top like Northcoast does.

Remains to be seen, but I did flap valves in the rear scuppers, if those work, do that. Not fun standing in water in a $130K boat.

I could whine about more cup holders or rod holders, but that seems petty.

What is your boat and what could they do better?

 

[glacierbaze]

Guys like me, that buy 20 year old boats, hope that the things we find lacking have already been addressed. It would be interesting to know how many here bought their boats new.
I agree that the eye level wind shield, and all that plastic and canvas can be a pain in the ass. I would like something I could look through, and not have to sit and look under, or stand and look over, as my only option.
Everyone who has ever changed through hulls, hoses, bilge pumps, etc., would like to see better access designed with the second or third owner in mind.
And I could use a handrail on top, I'm 73, and my retirement officially starts in one hour and 12 minutes.

 

[SkunkBoat]

They already started making windshields go to the top on the bigger models

 

[SeanC]

If they still made the 228, then a real bait rigging station and not just a bit of cutting board on the live bait tank lid that looks like it was given to the work experience kid to design. Without one it is not a “real“ fishing boat.

 

[Rustygaff]

Correct their transom cap issues once and for all.

 

[Fishtales]

As you know, I love my 228. But are there things I wish were different? You bet, and here is my list for the 228:

Offer a pilot house version with no eigenglass, just glass windows with a vertical divider rather than the horizontal divider.

Hand rails on the hard top like Northcoast does.

Remains to be seen, but I did flap valves in the rear scuppers, if those work, do that. Not fun standing in water in a $130K boat.

I could whine about more cup holders or rod holders, but that seems petty.

What is your boat and what could they do better?

- I think a new size bow rider would be higher on the list than a pilot house add.
- If you they are not draining, then your scuppers are underwater I'd say. There is excessive weight in the boat or the scuppers are too low. Once they started strapping 4S on the back of these boats they should have raised them.
- Good idea on the hand rails but I'd want a thicker hardtop and cored with Coosa as well. Current design can't hold weight, is cored with balsa (unless changed) and is the thinnest layer of glass I've ever seen. It's a step above a bimini.

My ideas
- Fix the transom area and really focus on overbuilding it. Too many leaks, too many transom issues and I have to believe too much embarrassment by this point. Eliminate the bang plate and glass 100%. Get rid of anything screwed in that area (plastic pieces etc). Get rid of the brass drain tubes and glass in either glass or plastic tubes.
- Provide access for and a maintenance plan for dealers to do scupper line maintenance, put one way valves for emergencies and plump the valve hard to the scupper. Safety first.
- Make more parts avail to the customer base and be reasonable on the mark up. Expand your parts business aka Harley Davidson. No part should go end of life, hold stock based on units sold and age. I think they could make a super business if they figured this out. Can be a hedge to the core business in downtimes. Develop upgrade and refresh kits that customers can buy. Man, there is a lot in this space they could do if they wanted to be innovative and focus on it.
- Review the hatch and access designs on all models. Don't screw decks into fiberglass and use that and caulk to hold in. Eliminate the black rubber tabs that are stuffed in spots to mitigate fiberglass to fiberglass noise. If you need a pad, adhere a 100% pad around the entire seal so it is permanent.
- Really 100% no wood boats. Eliminate it 100% period. Never screw through the core. Cut core and provide glass plug keepout area for screws to pass through a part without touching the core.
- Screw in deck plates on the transom. Install with 4200 vs silicone.
- Before rub rail is installed. Seal the liner/hull joint before installing it. Too many stories of balsa coring (which should be gone) turning to mush on bigger boats.
- Buy a few top tier boats and destructively teardown to see what the competition is doing. Use higher end bonding and sealants (Plexus and Life Caulk come to mind) where needed.
- Benchmark and tour other manufacturers (pretend to be a buyer) and see what others are doing especially areas you are weak in.
- Put a wiring program in place and improve wiring techniques, labeling and materials (tinned wire). It doesn't have to be done to Hylas standards, but step it and dress it up better.

 

[SkunkBoat]

- I think a new size bow rider would be higher on the list than a pilot house add.

hahahaha how about a wine rack to go with more cupholders?

- Good idea on the hand rails but I'd want a thicker hardtop and cored with Coosa as well. Current design can't hold weight, is cored with balsa (unless changed) and is the thinnest layer of glass I've ever seen. It's a step above a bimini.

I have mine off right now. It is crazy heavy. two guys struggle heavy. Its not wet at all. Coosa, even 1/4", would be way too heavy. It needs to be lighter not heavier.
Its not a deck on any model. A bubble top is not conducive to adding an upper helm station anyways.They could use plastic honeycomb coring.

- Review the hatch and access designs on all models. Don't screw decks into fiberglass and use that and caulk to hold in. Eliminate the black rubber tabs that are stuffed in spots to mitigate fiberglass to fiberglass noise. If you need a pad, adhere a 100% pad around the entire seal so it is permanent.

The sealed hatches above the bilge pump with the ridiculous 6" pie plate are an embarrassment. That should be a moulded hatch with a gutter that drains overboard.

 

[Fishtales]

If it is that heavy, it is wet. The hardtop is cored with feather weight balsa. As light as it can be made. The glass is one layer - super thin. Drill some holes and examine what comes out. I bet black coring and water. Post some pics.

Decks are cored with 1/2 plywood or XL Greenwood plywood. Stuff gets wet like a sponge as the deck screws go through it. Once wet it will never dry out. The backside will appear orange color and when it gets worse black spots and mold and wood deterioration occurs. A poor material selection choice - another application design defect if you ask me. They know it but do nothing about it as the cash is rolling in.

Coosa is lighter than plywood. I'm a fan after working with it. I think 1/2" is the thinnest offered. I was ok with it as the existing core was 1/2" so it should work fine. I'll be doing the layup over the next week or two as time permits and I'll chime in with results on that thread. If they make 3/8 or even 1/4" Coosa, I'd use it before balsa. Balsa is for kids glider planes - that's about it.

Guys I'd never buy another new Grady unless the design and design application issues are positively corrected. You'd think there would be focused improvement initiatives especially in areas shared up and down the product line (ex: transom) that are used throughout the line. GW was literally last to move from wood from stringers and transoms. Still building boats like it is the 1980s. If I were in charge, I'd shake up leadership and address the weak points asap. They have proven, well thought out boat designs. They don't need to make wholesale change but fix the issues! The design implementation in areas, materials selection (balsa and wood #1) and slow to change attitude is going to hurt them. I'd hate to be a manufacturing guy in that shop, I'm betting all problems are manufacturing's (training, not following process, mis-execution etc. - never's design). All the same BS that design teams that are worshiped are allowed to get away with and blame on others. I personally blame design for everything if there is finger pointing and make them lead in fixing the problems before one more new boat or pilot house or ...

 

[SkunkBoat]

If it is that heavy, it is wet. The hardtop is cored with feather weight balsa. As light as it can be made. The glass is one layer - super thin. Drill some holes and examine what comes out. I bet black coring and water. Post some pics.

Not wet at all. I have examined it thoroughly. Dry, tan colored balsa. Nothing has dripped out of any hole. I was actully surprised by that. Its been in my garage for a couple months.
Yes, the glass is thin but its on two sides and there is thickened resin at the edges for the radiuses. Mine is roughly 11' by 8' (I have a 265 express). thats a lot of glass! I would guess the hardtop is heavier than the aluminum frame. And that is with the electronics box removed. The e-box has plywood.

I have been on the top to clean several times and it is solid. It supports my 200 lbs without flexing.
I agree it would be better to use something other than balsa. Coosa is too heavy for a top once you wrap it with fiberglass and resin. Honeycomb is the ticket. Light and does not rot.
There are various foam coring materials too.
They could beef up just the normal mounting area above the e-box. I am going to glass in some plywood inside there to hang the VHF and a Garmin 4200 and an AISLink

 

[blindmullet]

For me I would like them to focus more on fishing. It would help them get some market share for the under retirement age buyers in Florida. They really seem to lag behind for the serious fisherman and younger demo.

 

[ElyseM]

buy a shop vac

 

[blynch]

Can't really reference my 28 year old Seafarer for this discussion, but if I came into some vast fortune tomorrow and decided to look into new CC, Grady would probably not be on my list. I find they do an incredible job of cluttering the decks of even their largest boats so as to minimize fishing space. Would you believe this is the bow of a thirty-seven foot boat?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I agree with most of what has been said so far, especially with regards to the windshield on a 228 Seafarer which just seems to be perfectly at eye level when sitting down. A fully enclosed helm area without needing the canvas/isinglass would be nice, especially if it had sliding glass side windows on the hot days. It is nice though to be able to run without the canvas/isinglass during the summer when it is hot so that you can keep yourself cool. Handrails on top of the hardtop would be nice but then I typically just use the horizontal cross brace for the hardtop support itself just fine. I do wish they'd go away completely from using any kind of wood at all and just be 100% fiberglass. Things like the cheap rubber/plastic cockpit drains and thru hull scuppers on the older boats could have been resolved very quickly with using stainless steel or something a bit nicer. It would be nice if they also had a parts website or store that you could look at and browse yourself so you didn't have to call up a dealer or GW every time you had an inquiry about something. Of course, they want you to spend your money with them though, so I can see why they do it that way. And as SeanC mentioned above, a proper rigging bait station as the cheap cutting board that is down at the level of your knees isn't exactly comfortable to use for cutting for long periods of time. It would also be nice if you could customize your boat a bit more, like I've got a 228 Seafarer and it has a total of 6 seats but it would be nice if you had the option to take out the two rear facing seats to give you a bit more space for fishing. Especially if you don't think you'll ever use the 6 total seats that they give you. I don't think I'll use the storage underneath for anything either as I'll probably just throw everything in the rear fish box, and think it's just kind of a waste of space.

 

[Fishtales]

Not wet at all. I have examined it thoroughly. Dry, tan colored balsa. Nothing has dripped out of any hole. I was actully surprised by that. Its been in my garage for a couple months.
Yes, the glass is thin but its on two sides and there is thickened resin at the edges for the radiuses. Mine is roughly 11' by 8' (I have a 265 express). thats a lot of glass! I would guess the hardtop is heavier than the aluminum frame. And that is with the electronics box removed. The e-box has plywood.

I have been on the top to clean several times and it is solid. It supports my 200 lbs without flexing.
I agree it would be better to use something other than balsa. Coosa is too heavy for a top once you wrap it with fiberglass and resin. Honeycomb is the ticket. Light and does not rot.
There are various foam coring materials too.
They could beef up just the normal mounting area above the e-box. I am going to glass in some plywood inside there to hang the VHF and a Garmin 4200 and an AISLink

That's great. It is a large sheet of material. I like the idea of a honeycomb composite.

 

[glacierbaze]

If you go to their website, and look at the gallery for every model in the lineup, you will see that their focus is family boating, not hard core fishing. If that is where the market is, then I say go for it. I am a Grady owner, four over the last 40 years, plus a few others, but I have never tried to sell anyone on the brand.

 

[SeanC]

- I think a new size bow rider would be higher on the list than a pilot house add.
- If you they are not draining, then your scuppers are underwater I'd say. There is excessive weight in the boat or the scuppers are too low. Once they started strapping 4S on the back of these boats they should have raised them.
- Good idea on the hand rails but I'd want a thicker hardtop and cored with Coosa as well. Current design can't hold weight, is cored with balsa (unless changed) and is the thinnest layer of glass I've ever seen. It's a step above a bimini.

My ideas
- Fix the transom area and really focus on overbuilding it. Too many leaks, too many transom issues and I have to believe too much embarrassment by this point. Eliminate the bang plate and glass 100%. Get rid of anything screwed in that area (plastic pieces etc). Get rid of the brass drain tubes and glass in either glass or plastic tubes.
- Provide access for and a maintenance plan for dealers to do scupper line maintenance, put one way valves for emergencies and plump the valve hard to the scupper. Safety first.
- Make more parts avail to the customer base and be reasonable on the mark up. Expand your parts business aka Harley Davidson. No part should go end of life, hold stock based on units sold and age. I think they could make a super business if they figured this out. Can be a hedge to the core business in downtimes. Develop upgrade and refresh kits that customers can buy. Man, there is a lot in this space they could do if they wanted to be innovative and focus on it.
- Review the hatch and access designs on all models. Don't screw decks into fiberglass and use that and caulk to hold in. Eliminate the black rubber tabs that are stuffed in spots to mitigate fiberglass to fiberglass noise. If you need a pad, adhere a 100% pad around the entire seal so it is permanent.
- Really 100% no wood boats. Eliminate it 100% period. Never screw through the core. Cut core and provide glass plug keepout area for screws to pass through a part without touching the core.
- Screw in deck plates on the transom. Install with 4200 vs silicone.
- Before rub rail is installed. Seal the liner/hull joint before installing it. Too many stories of balsa coring (which should be gone) turning to mush on bigger boats.
- Buy a few top tier boats and destructively teardown to see what the competition is doing. Use higher end bonding and sealants (Plexus and Life Caulk come to mind) where needed.
- Benchmark and tour other manufacturers (pretend to be a buyer) and see what others are doing especially areas you are weak in.
- Put a wiring program in place and improve wiring techniques, labeling and materials (tinned wire). It doesn't have to be done to Hylas standards, but step it and dress it up better.

It’s not that Grady doesn’t know how the competition does things or how to do things better. Like every boat builder they build to a price point and the added cost and time to make the improvements you mentioned would push them above that “price point”.

 

[georgemjr]

It’s not that Grady doesn’t know how the competition does things or how to do things better. Like every boat builder they build to a price point and the added cost and time to make the improvements you mentioned would push them above that “price point”.

Agreed. The transom bang plate is, in my opinion, their greatest flaw. It isn't quality of life issues but rather an inherent weak spot for rot issues. Grady is definitely not a hardcore fishing boat. I have owned a 24 Offshore, 28 Sailfish, 30 Marlin, and 33 Express, with various other boats along the way. Grady is a decathlete champion but doesn't win in any one category. It does everything well: can go offshore fishing, can back up to the beach and raise the motors, can overnight comfortably, etc. But it doesn't dominate any category other than overall - which is why I went back to it, I like to do all the above.

 

[Chessie246G]

Better access for the thru hulls and hoses. They have to know that eventually owners are going to need to get to them for replacement. I will go as far to say the orientation of the clamps as well. I know that are installed before the cap is put on but damn fellas. A double jointed orangutan cant even get to some of them.... then make it worse you cant get to the damn clamps because they are clocked away from the opening.

Agreed with the push in hatch covers too. Few extra $ for some screw ins would be nice. We all know the push ins do not seal with a crap.

 

[Cap'n Pete]

Here are mine: experience is only one boat, a new Freedom 325. 2019 model.
The windshield safety glass gives interference when using polarized sun glasses. Shows a rainbow pattern. Solved by buying non polarized aircraft pilot sun glasses, but really. . . in a fishing boat? Do newer G-W boats have this problem?
The hatch between the bow and captain's space bangs open due to the latch slipping. Apparently a common problem in dual console boats, because Pursuit just incorporated their version of a fix.
The anchor light is almost inaccessible and can't easily be raised and lowered without contortions. There must be a solution. Some of us aren't so spry anymore!
Some rust showed at rail entry to fiberglass. Factory says it is due to SS grinding particles at that location. They do rust. Really, Grady. Your factory QC should address this issue. Not all my rails, just a few. I cleaned and resealed to solve the problem and it is working.

 

[glacierbaze]

Clean out all the crap that the builders leave behind, hole cut-outs, pieces of foam, wire, etc. that clog limber holes, before putting the cap on. Design the drainage in the stringers and bulkheads so that zero water is trapped in the hull.