Sounds to me like they did know and failed to tell you. If you knew they had 1300 hours on them would you have even looked or bought the boat? I am sure you would not have paid what you payed for her.Bama96 said:
What should I do?
- Thread starter Bama96
- Start date
Yes I would have still looked at it. That is what I am trying to determine. What would the value be with 1300 hours? I paid $65K thinking it was 671 hours. What would have been the purchse price with the higher hours?How much should be paid back to me for the higher engine hours?
Bama, looks like they hooked you in and it really doesn't matter now the hrs, that was their game plan. Very effective.
Even if they are willing to take it back, they still hooked you in.
The question is, do you want motors with such life used, at any price?
Yes or no?
How long do you intend to own boat ? 2 yrs, 5 yrs, or 10 yrs?
If not that long, do you care when you sell it what you get or any interest?
How many hours do you intend to use per year, or just hang out at dock most of time.
What happens when one motor bites the dust, do you intend to spend $18-$20K on new motor, or dump boat?
Even if they are willing to take it back, they still hooked you in.
The question is, do you want motors with such life used, at any price?
Yes or no?
How long do you intend to own boat ? 2 yrs, 5 yrs, or 10 yrs?
If not that long, do you care when you sell it what you get or any interest?
How many hours do you intend to use per year, or just hang out at dock most of time.
What happens when one motor bites the dust, do you intend to spend $18-$20K on new motor, or dump boat?
I would ask the question this way.. At how many hours are the engines worthless ? People on this forum report 2000 hours on these engines.
Hypothetically, then if you use the 2000 hour figure (or any figure you want). Take the cost of a new engine INSTALLED and divide by 2000.
This gives a dollar value per hour.. Then figure the $ difference between
630 hours anf 1300.. It is an imperfect approach but at least there is some logic to it that would be hard for the dealer to refute.
There mught be some trading venue for used Yamaha motors that could give you comparative values but I have no idea if it exists or how to access it.
Another approach is to get a reputable marine surveyor to
evaluate the price difference.. I guess you know that the time to employ one is before the purchase. Always ask for the service records when buying a boat from a dealership that has serviced the boat..
The hours are there and should come off of the engine not the
gagues. It will also give you a world of info as to how those hours were accumulated.. Trolling vs wot..
Hypothetically, then if you use the 2000 hour figure (or any figure you want). Take the cost of a new engine INSTALLED and divide by 2000.
This gives a dollar value per hour.. Then figure the $ difference between
630 hours anf 1300.. It is an imperfect approach but at least there is some logic to it that would be hard for the dealer to refute.
There mught be some trading venue for used Yamaha motors that could give you comparative values but I have no idea if it exists or how to access it.
Another approach is to get a reputable marine surveyor to
evaluate the price difference.. I guess you know that the time to employ one is before the purchase. Always ask for the service records when buying a boat from a dealership that has serviced the boat..
The hours are there and should come off of the engine not the
gagues. It will also give you a world of info as to how those hours were accumulated.. Trolling vs wot..
That is the problem. The ECUs were changed out as well. A surveyor still would not know the true hours with new gages and ECUs. The computer shows the 671 as well as the gages. If I did not know the prior owner there is no way I would have ever known the true story. The boat next to this one was hit by lightning and fried the electronics and ECUs on this boat as well. These were swapped out 4 years ago by this dealership.
What I need to know is what is the depreciation of the boat with the higher hours? $5k? $10K? I plan to put about 100 to 150 hours a year on her. I see me in this one for three to four years before I go to a 305 Express or 33 Express.
What I need to know is what is the depreciation of the boat with the higher hours? $5k? $10K? I plan to put about 100 to 150 hours a year on her. I see me in this one for three to four years before I go to a 305 Express or 33 Express.
Rorkin, you sound like a salesman and you are doing a good job.
Many have asked how long do motors last.
People on THT report cracked crankcases and the like - total losses- over at THT on F motors, long before 2000 hrs.
Just like cars, it's year model and mileage.
And by the way, average usage is 75 - 100 hrs a year, not what salesman said.
I would say the buyer should get the longer end of the stick in this deal, not the other way around as it is turning out.
Tell them to keep the lied-about- motors and sell them to the next guy at the 600 hr usage as advertised and repower YOUR BOAT with factory freah mint F250s with 5 yr warranty for $15K labor included, same controls. That's the only deal I'd accept. (You can go $5 k higher when they balk, not a penny more.)
Must have 5 yr Yamaha warranty or no deal, no zero value 3rd party warranty will suffice.
Many have asked how long do motors last.
People on THT report cracked crankcases and the like - total losses- over at THT on F motors, long before 2000 hrs.
Just like cars, it's year model and mileage.
And by the way, average usage is 75 - 100 hrs a year, not what salesman said.
I would say the buyer should get the longer end of the stick in this deal, not the other way around as it is turning out.
Tell them to keep the lied-about- motors and sell them to the next guy at the 600 hr usage as advertised and repower YOUR BOAT with factory freah mint F250s with 5 yr warranty for $15K labor included, same controls. That's the only deal I'd accept. (You can go $5 k higher when they balk, not a penny more.)
Must have 5 yr Yamaha warranty or no deal, no zero value 3rd party warranty will suffice.
In one month the Grady Expert from redneck riviera has had 11 pages on this forum related to his finding the "right deal" and now it is a bad, no actually, horrible deal/purchase- PLEASE GIVE ME ADVICE!- For the horse s--- you you have sent my way since December- all I can say it could not happen to a nicer guy!
IMO it's worth 5k just to put a number on it. But, if you put another 600 hrs on them (150 x 4) how marketable is the boat then with 2k hrs on the engines? Just another way to look at it. If they argue with the 5k just say I'll drop it off for you to re-sell.
armauro said:
You are a real azz. I bought a boat from a reputable dealer that was very clean and at a fair price. How was I to know I was being screwed?
Thanks for your thoughtful advice you have been great!
If you like the boat as much as you say then you should probably try to bump them up another couple grand just to see where they'll go with it then settle. Either way, Good Luck! I'd hate to be in that position.
Bill
Bill
armauro said:
Wow... and this effects your life how?
Weren't you the one who said, "you will not own a new boat 6 months from now because ......you are cheap and so on"?
Good call, huh?
"the Grady Expert from redneck riviera has had 11 pages on this forum..."
That sounds like nothing more than petty jealousy to me.
I think most members realize you 2 guys had some friction with your boat sale. Imo, that feud should have never been brought to this forum in the first place, but certainly by now, it should be a dead issue. It's obvious that bama has gotten over it and moved on. You should consider doing the same, because right now, all your doing is anouncing to this whole board, that your taking pleasure in someone esle's pain. :x
These two guys couldn't close the gap on a sale, what's the big deal?
Sell to someone else, or buy from someone else.
Whenever I sell anything and the prospective buyer acts up, I make it crystal clear I don't care who buys it, him or the next guy, os takle it of leave it. Those are the exact words I use.
Whenever I buy something, if the seller acts up and plays game or lies about condition, I say thanks and leave.
No different than taking a wrong turn when traveling, some lost time and gas, all part of it.
You guys put too much into this.
If BAMA had the written pre-purchase motor evaluation performed by Yamaha tech prior to purchase, he wouldn't be in this situation and the thread would have ended two pages ago. He's been give the advise choose not to follow it.
Sure you should trust your dealer.
Trust but verify, trust but verify. Lesson of the day for buyers.
Sell to someone else, or buy from someone else.
Whenever I sell anything and the prospective buyer acts up, I make it crystal clear I don't care who buys it, him or the next guy, os takle it of leave it. Those are the exact words I use.
Whenever I buy something, if the seller acts up and plays game or lies about condition, I say thanks and leave.
No different than taking a wrong turn when traveling, some lost time and gas, all part of it.
You guys put too much into this.
If BAMA had the written pre-purchase motor evaluation performed by Yamaha tech prior to purchase, he wouldn't be in this situation and the thread would have ended two pages ago. He's been give the advise choose not to follow it.
Sure you should trust your dealer.
Trust but verify, trust but verify. Lesson of the day for buyers.
BobP said:
Bob with the ECUs changed is there anyway a tech could tell the true hours? Thanks catch22 I agree 100%.
Good point Bama, the answer is NO.
Nonetheless, you should have been told the hrs are "indeterminable" or "estimated" and for what reason, not what you were told IMHO. If the boat was serviced at the dealer annually, I expect the dealer to be aware of motor hrs and record it in their database since certain work is hr based.
This is all water under the bridge - if you are happy nothing else matters.
So move on, in a few weeks on the water you will not remember any of this.
I had a worse experience trying to get the title cleared from Grady dealer brokered boat, no one at dealer wanted to know me after I paid, dealer went out of business since.
I had to call the lienholder bank, goverment offices where it was titled etc, to get it cleared, otherwise could not have registered in NYS. Took over 2 months and that's doing it myself.
When I got it it on the water several months later when spring arrived, never looked back.
The Marlin left the gate in 1989 as a perfect design, after all, it was based on the already incredibly successful Sailfish just made larger with more features like a generator, frig, A/C, and tuna door.
Unfortunately, it was a still born, for the next 10 yrs it didn't sell any quantity, due more to POS outboard motor techology 30 yrs and running - at the time.
In the new dawn of OB motor technology in decade starting year 2000, more than 10 yrs later, the Marlin came out of the cryogenic cell in the basement at Greenville to take it's rightful place on the water, selling from then on in quantity, I'd say for the last 9 yrs vs. first 10, more than 20 times as many Marlins were manufactured.
However long the Marlin remains in production, it will always be the bigger but younger brother to the Sailfish.
Montauk is Grady heaven, I get to enjoy the girl watching all the time !
Nonetheless, you should have been told the hrs are "indeterminable" or "estimated" and for what reason, not what you were told IMHO. If the boat was serviced at the dealer annually, I expect the dealer to be aware of motor hrs and record it in their database since certain work is hr based.
This is all water under the bridge - if you are happy nothing else matters.
So move on, in a few weeks on the water you will not remember any of this.
I had a worse experience trying to get the title cleared from Grady dealer brokered boat, no one at dealer wanted to know me after I paid, dealer went out of business since.
I had to call the lienholder bank, goverment offices where it was titled etc, to get it cleared, otherwise could not have registered in NYS. Took over 2 months and that's doing it myself.
When I got it it on the water several months later when spring arrived, never looked back.
The Marlin left the gate in 1989 as a perfect design, after all, it was based on the already incredibly successful Sailfish just made larger with more features like a generator, frig, A/C, and tuna door.
Unfortunately, it was a still born, for the next 10 yrs it didn't sell any quantity, due more to POS outboard motor techology 30 yrs and running - at the time.
In the new dawn of OB motor technology in decade starting year 2000, more than 10 yrs later, the Marlin came out of the cryogenic cell in the basement at Greenville to take it's rightful place on the water, selling from then on in quantity, I'd say for the last 9 yrs vs. first 10, more than 20 times as many Marlins were manufactured.
However long the Marlin remains in production, it will always be the bigger but younger brother to the Sailfish.
Montauk is Grady heaven, I get to enjoy the girl watching all the time !
Bama96 said:
Your welcome.
I think it's great that the dealer is willing to give you back a substantiial amount of money, (over 5k) without a big hassle.
Over-all, at the price you mentioned, plus this refund, I think you got a good deal.
Hopefully this issue will be history soon and you can simply enoy the new boat.
Looks reeeel purrrdy, by the way. (that was my "redneck" accent :lol
.Thanks should end up with high $50s in her. Not bad for a Marlin even with high hours. Got a trailer too.
BobP said:
LOL, Bob, always reminding us of the legacy of the Marlin as the stepchild of the Sailfish.