what to replace raw water washdown/livewell pump with?

[DoctorOctopus]

Hi everyone, I have a 1986 Seafarer 228 (F225 on a bracket ) with a live well along the transom, and a hose. The live well and wash down hose are supplied via a seacock selector. I have a Sureflo Blaster. it doesn't really "blast" as it is a 3.5 GPH pump. The live well seems VERY low flow compared to the hose, additionally the intermittent droning every other second I really don't like AT ALL. It does not aerate as much as just add new water flow. It is handy that it has a pressure switch I suppose and I generally can leave it on with the hose attached. I often use the live well and keep the bait for several hours, so leave the live well pump on when live-lining or fishing with Killies.

at any rate I would like to jettison the Sureflow. what would you guys replace this with? is there something I could replace straight into this system as-is ? would you go for 2 separate pumps? keep the seacock? I've read about Groco, Jabsco, Johnson. I'm not even sure what the difference between a pump and an aerator pump is so any advice will be welcome.

 

[seasick]

In general. the livewell pump and the washdown pumps are different models. One is rated for continuous duty (livewell) and smaller flow rates while the washdown would be designed for short duration/high volume use. Typically, the seacock has a dual output livewell pump directly mounted to it. The second output which is not pumped is connected via a hose to a separate washdown pump.
If you currently have a selector on the output side of single pump, the pump will either be inadequate for washdown or oversized for livewell. The flow rate for the livewell pump is determined by the capacity of the livewell and how many changes per hour your bait needs. If the pump is too small, bait will not get enough oxygen . If the pump is too big, bait will be over stressed. In both cases the life of your bait will be shortened.
An easier way to size the livewell pump is too have someone with the same boat, look at theirs and tell you waht Grady installed. It doesn't have to be someone with the same hull, just someone with the same capacity livewell.
The basic plan is to make sure that your livewell pump says it is a livewell pump and you washdown says it is a washdown pump

 

[Hookup1]

You can't really do it with one pump. Install a Rule 1100 gph or 800 gph (don't do 500 gph) on the thru hull. Install a Shurflow Blaster II on the extra port the Rule bait pump comes with. Mine is 3.5 gpm Blaster II and it works fine. Make sure your thru hull and clamshell strainer are clean.

Rule "Fc" Tournament Series 1100 Gph Livewell/Aerator W/ Seacock Inlet

Rule FC Tournament Series 1100 GPH LivewellAerator w Seacock InletFC Tournament Series153 Removable Motor CartridgeFor ThruHull Applications Straight 434 Pickup TubeThese new pumps are built on Rules unsurpassed quality and leadership i...

www.hodgesmarine.com

 

[Holokai]

You can't really do it with one pump. Install a Rule 1100 gph or 800 gph (don't do 500 gph) on the thru hull. Install a Shurflow Blaster II on the extra port the Rule bait pump comes with. Mine is 3.5 gpm Blaster II and it works fine. Make sure your thru hull and clamshell strainer are clean.

Rule "Fc" Tournament Series 1100 Gph Livewell/Aerator W/ Seacock Inlet

Rule FC Tournament Series 1100 GPH LivewellAerator w Seacock InletFC Tournament Series153 Removable Motor CartridgeFor ThruHull Applications Straight 434 Pickup TubeThese new pumps are built on Rules unsurpassed quality and leadership i...

www.hodgesmarine.com

This is good advice.

Livewell/Bait pump - high volume, low pressure

Washdown - low volume, high pressure

With the livewell pump your hose routing becomes critical as the pump will have to overcome the head/height of the highest point of the hose. Most pumps come with a pump curve that you can reference; depending on your hose routing you may get significantly lower flow than listed on the packaging. Best best would be to go with a higher flow and install a valve between the pump and livewell. Measure the time it takes to fill the livewell from empty; this is the fastest it will fill. You can throttle the flow as necessary to match the optimal volume exchanges per hour.

 

[glacierbaze]

First thing you should do, if there is a filter between the intake and the pump, is to take that filter apart and clean the screen. It can make the difference between Shurflo, and Loflo.
But, if that is the only pump in the system, you should install the pump Hookup linked for livewell, and have a separate washdown pump.
Are you sure the washdown is raw water, my transom washdown hose is plumbed to the freshwater tank, with a separate pump. Can't picture an on demand, pressure regulated pump hooked to a livewell, either.
If it is supplying the well and the WD at the same time, no wonder the WD pressure is low.

 

[wrxhoon]

This is the livewell pump in my 2013 228, 800 gal.
My boat has 2 seacocks, one for livewell and the other for washdown.

As others stated , ideally you need separate pumps. Livewell pump is high volume low pressure designed to run constantly ( similar to bilge pumps ) and low amp consumption.
Deckwash pumps are high pressure low volume and high energy consumption.

My old boat (228 as well) only had one seacock , didn't have washdown pump.
I replaced the livewell pump with a dual pick up Rule 800 as per hookup's picture and used the second pick up for my washdown.
This 800 pump works very well keeping the livies all day and I don't run it when under way .
I prefer the 6.0 GPM washdown pumps because of their higher volume , so I replaced my 4.0 with a 6.0 when I bought my current boat .
If I only had one seacock that's the way I would go again.

​

 

[Crazyfish1]

First thing you should do, if there is a filter between the intake and the pump, is to take that filter apart and clean the screen. It can make the difference between Shurflo, and Loflo.
But, if that is the only pump in the system, you should install the pump Hookup linked for livewell, and have a separate washdown pump.
Are you sure the washdown is raw water, my transom washdown hose is plumbed to the freshwater tank, with a separate pump. Can't picture an on demand, pressure regulated pump hooked to a livewell, either.
If it is supplying the well and the WD at the same time, no wonder the WD pressure is low.

 

[ROBERTH]

Like others have already said, 2 separate pumps. I use the Pro Blaster 5gpm I just replaced last year. Had the 4gpm and really don't get that much more pressure. For the livewell, I installed a Piranha 800 which is just right based on specs for volume of water to the 30gal. livewell. However, it went out after 1st year and I replaced it a couple weeks ago. Over off season, will pull the floor hatch and replace with the magdrive models which should last longer.
One other big advantage of the livewell pumps is that by replacing with a centrifugal over a diaphragm model, you use way less amps and is much quieter. So when at anchor and no motors running, will not drain batteries like the diaphragm pump will.

 

[DoctorOctopus]

You can't really do it with one pump. Install a Rule 1100 gph or 800 gph (don't do 500 gph) on the thru hull. Install a Shurflow Blaster II on the extra port the Rule bait pump comes with. Mine is 3.5 gpm Blaster II and it works fine. Make sure your thru hull and clamshell strainer are clean.

Rule "Fc" Tournament Series 1100 Gph Livewell/Aerator W/ Seacock Inlet

Rule FC Tournament Series 1100 GPH LivewellAerator w Seacock InletFC Tournament Series153 Removable Motor CartridgeFor ThruHull Applications Straight 434 Pickup TubeThese new pumps are built on Rules unsurpassed quality and leadership i...

www.hodgesmarine.com

Well, I’m finally getting around to this. I’m a bit confused by your description

from what I can tell, the bottom side of the rule dual port pump is essentially a Y valve. I would remove the hose from the sureflo blaster and insert it into the input of the rule pump. The bottom output goes to the strainer and input of the blaster. the powered pressurized top port would then go to my life well.

1) is there is no strainer leading to the rule pump, just the blaster?

2) Can the live well and the wash down be run simultaneouslyOr would I just put this on a DPDT switch so I can only run one at a time? Or do you run two switches?

3) do I have to mount this directly to the seacock? Access that far down is a challenge/impossible on this boat. If would probably make nstall it l higher up on the hose. But would need to secure it.
Finding a place to mount this in the battery compartment next to the blaster will be challenging !

thanks for your advice !

 

[DoctorOctopus]

Why don’t you run the livewell under way?


My old boat (228 as well) only had one seacock , didn't have washdown pump.
I replaced the livewell pump with a dual pick up Rule 800 as per hookup's picture and used the second pick up for my washdown.
This 800 pump works very well keeping the livies all day and I don't run it when under way .
I prefer the 6.0 GPM washdown pumps because of their higher volume , so I replaced my 4.0 with a 6.0 when I bought my current boat .
If I only had one seacock that's the way I would go again.

Why don’t you run the livewell under way?

 

[DoctorOctopus]

This is good advice.

Livewell/Bait pump - high volume, low pressure

Washdown - low volume, high pressure

With the livewell pump your hose routing becomes critical as the pump will have to overcome the head/height of the highest point of the hose. Most pumps come with a pump curve that you can reference; depending on your hose routing you may get significantly lower flow than listed on the packaging. Best best would be to go with a higher flow and install a valve between the pump and livewell. Measure the time it takes to fill the livewell from empty; this is the fastest it will fill. You can throttle the flow as necessary to match the optimal volume exchanges per hour.

A valve is a great idea

 

[Hookup1]

Well, I’m finally getting around to this. I’m a bit confused by your description

from what I can tell, the bottom side of the rule dual port pump is essentially a Y valve. I would remove the hose from the sureflo blaster and insert it into the input of the rule pump. The bottom output goes to the strainer and input of the blaster. the powered pressurized top port would then go to my life well.

1) is there is no strainer leading to the rule pump, just the blaster?

2) Can the live well and the wash down be run simultaneouslyOr would I just put this on a DPDT switch so I can only run one at a time? Or do you run two switches?

3) WRXHOON mentioned he does not run the livewell while underway with this setup. I’m not sure why.
Finding a place to mount this in the battery compartment next to the blaster will be challenging !

thanks for your advice !

1.) There is no strainer. Occasionally I have gotten seaweed in the pump. You can hear it and should pop the pump off to clean it. It can damage the pump. 3-year warranty on the Rule pump. I keep a spare on the boat. I buy the West Marine Extended warranty for $10 so I can swap the pump at the store.

2.) Yes they can both be run at the same time. I do this all the time.

3.) When run-in centrifugal pumps that are powered off will allow water to pass thru to the bait well. That works the other way too - your bait well will loose water when stopped if pump not powered on. My pumps run all the time - under power or while fishing. Serves no purpose and you risk loosing you're expensive bait if you forget to turn it on.

 

[DoctorOctopus]

1.) There is no strainer. Occasionally I have gotten seaweed in the pump. You can hear it and should pop the pump off to clean it. It can damage the pump. 3-year warranty on the Rule pump. I keep a spare on the boat. I buy the West Marine Extended warranty for $10 so I can swap the pump at the store.

2.) Yes they can both be run at the same time. I do this all the time.

3.) When run-in centrifugal pumps that are powered off will allow water to pass thru to the bait well. That works the other way too - your bait well will loose water when stopped if pump not powered on. My pumps run all the time - under power or while fishing. Serves no purpose and you risk loosing you're expensive bait if you forget to turn it on.

Is there any way to mount this on the transom? I don't think I can get down to the seacock on a. 228

 

[Hookup1]

Is there any way to mount this on the transom? I don't think I can get down to the seacock on a. 228

I don't know your model boat.

On mine the deck has a small length hatch and a long length hatch. Both are wide and removable. Both have a round access port. My thru hulls and pumps are accessible thru the rear access port or by removing the small hatch. I can change the two rule pumps I have thru the access port. I can even replace the washdown pump although its not easy.

 

[glacierbaze]

Is there any way to mount this on the transom? I don't think I can get down to the seacock on a. 228

Yes, no one is suggesting that you mount your wash down pump directly to the auxiliary port on your live well pump. Mount the WD pump on the inside of the transom, and connected the two with a piece of hose. Minimize your lift, and mount the pump vertically, with the motor on top.
There should be a check valve between your live well pump and your live well, to prevent water loss when the pump is not running, and the boat is not moving. If your tank fills from the top, it should not be a problem anyway.

 

[Fishtales]

Replaced mine with the Sureflow Bait Sentry in the past on my 282. Never had to do it again.

 

[DoctorOctopus]

Yes, no one is suggesting that you mount your wash down pump directly to the auxiliary port on your live well pump. Mount the WD pump on the inside of the transom, and connected the two with a piece of hose. Minimize your lift, and mount the pump vertically, with the motor on top.
There should be a check valve between your live well pump and your live well, to prevent water loss when the pump is not running, and the boat is not moving. If your tank fills from the top, it should not be a problem anyway.

Good advice on the check valve. I will move the fill to the top , with a backwash attachment . and replace the lower fill with a light. Do you add any kind of pre-filter or screen. It’s vaguely referred To in the manual and I have one on my present washdowm setup. I will keep it for the way down I guess but don’t see anything before the aerator pump on anyone’s photos here. It looks like they are all straight on the seacock.

 

[Hookup1]

The washdown pump runs intermittently and has never clogged on my boat. The 1100 GPH live well pump sometimes runs for days to keep our bait alive overnight. I have occasionally picked up weed while out fishing. There isn't a coarse filter. I can hear the pump when this happens and immediately clean it.

 

[DoctorOctopus]

The washdown pump runs intermittently and has never clogged on my boat. The 1100 GPH live well pump sometimes runs for days to keep our bait alive overnight. I have occasionally picked up weed while out fishing. There isn't a coarse filter. I can hear the pump when this happens and immediately clean it.

I will set up a backwash and hopefully won't have to worry about it. I have a strainer on the wash down already I probably clean it a couple times a decade. I think the instructions "Install a thru-hull pickup tube with a filter grate to prevent debris from entering the seacock and the pump." just means one of the pickups with a rough grate or slits on it that everyone has already. The instructions I guess include installing a thru-hull (sort of a no-duh!)




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