Which is a better boat for me?

Limit Out

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Hello Again,

Looking at couple of boats and looking for some imput.

One is a 25 Sailfish with twin 150HP Yamaha 4 strokes

Other is a 23 Gulfstream with twin 140 HP Suzuki 4 strokes.

Looking at charter fishing with either one, up to 5 guys at times.

Which would be a better boat for what I want to do?

Thanks for any and all help.

Tight Lines

Wade
 

Grog

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Check the transoms of either.

I'd pick the Sailfish for the stand-up head (but I'm a bit biased).
 

gw204

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I was leaning towards the Gulfstream because I figured it to be quite a bit lighter than the Sailfish and the 140s would push it much better than 150s would push the larger rig. However, I now see that the it's only like a 500 lb. difference dry.

But that doesn't account for the difference in additional weight you will have by a larger fuel and water capacities, more stored gear, etc. in the Sailfish. So, I think both may be underpowered for your purposes.

I suggest you take a look at the 25' Maycraft my buddy is selling. It's well equipped, in phenomenal shape, very fuel effiecient and has a ton of room to fish.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... 7&posts=47
 

gradyfish22

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Are they open transom or bracket boats? Also how many hours on the engines of each? Does one have better electronics then another, or will both be getting new electronics. As Grog mentioned, have the transom checked for saturation, also check stringers and decks for soft spots. If it is a notches transom, check the metal trim, if it is corroded and falling apart, there likely is transom damage. Also, if there are nylon thru hulls, you will wan tto likely change them to bronze or SS, or atleast coat them with 3m 4200 as a minimum precaution. If all checks out, then it comes down to which boat will fit your needs better layout wise. I would have a marine surveyor check the both before you purchase, you do not want to buy a money pit. The 25 sailfish is more boat and may ride better just from shear weight, but will likely burn more fuel as well. The sailfish will probably be slower then the gulfstream speed wise, and may cruise at a lower speed also. Both can be great boats. A little more info on the types of conditions you plan to encounter and the boats themselves might help us give you advice. Good luck in the decision.
 

ocnslr

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We bought our Islander new with a single 250HP OX66. Repowered with twin F150s. They are really nice on this boat, but I think they would be working hard on the extra weight and extra beam of a Sailfish.
 

Limit Out

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The transom on the Sailfish is a bracket or outboard pod as I have heard them called. The twin 150 Yamahas have 96 hours on them, brand new. He told me that with 4 guys and full fuel that he cruised at 32 mph. Doesn't sound to bad. Electronics are not really an issue as I have all that I need already.

The Gulfstream has a open transom where the engines are right on the back of the boat. They have 140 hours on the and still have 4 years of warranty on them. Does have more electronics but as I said, it not a big deal.

I am planning on heading out to see them both next week and get a survey on them. I will be using the boat on the west side of Vancouver Island, big swell and big water, charter fishing for salmon and halibut.

I am favoring the Sailfish a bit more as it is bigger, bit more room and I am a bit of a Yamaha fan.

Was more wondering if the boats had enough power.

Thanks

Wade
 

jimmy's marine service

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Limit Out said:
The Sailfish is 1988 and the Gulfstream is a 1989


well...it's like this...the older gradys,like the sailfish,are NOT designed for the weight of the new 4 stroke engines,it's gonna be a problem,especially due to the fact they're bracket mounted engines...i would back away from that one...
transoms,guys are gonna tell you the closed transom bracket boats are less prone to transom problems,not true,don't believe what you hear...

if it was me,i would look elsewhere...there's alot of boats on the market right now...you really want a sailfish i would think,it's bigger,chartering on a boat this size is tough,6 guys ??? that's alot people on a 25' boat...even more on a 23'... :wink: :wink:
 

Limit Out

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I had no plans of having 6 guys, maybe 5 if needed on the boat.

I am looking for 4 stroke engines, not to many out there for sale right now. Lots of Grady's, but with big 2 stroke power that burn up gas.

Thanks

Wade
 

jimmy's marine service

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Limit Out said:
I had no plans of having 6 guys, maybe 5 if needed on the boat.

I am looking for 4 stroke engines, not to many out there for sale right now. Lots of Grady's, but with big 2 stroke power that burn up gas.

Thanks

Wade


looking for 4 stroke engines,that means you're gonna have to be looking at newer gradys versus older gradys...just 'cause it's a 2 stroke doesn't mean it burns excessive fuel...the new dfi engines,these are 2 strokes,and in many cases,these burn less fuel than 4 strokes :wink:

don't try to "defy common sense",and purchase a g/w that's been repowered witht he 4 stroke engines,i've personally seen the end result,and it's not pretty...here's another point that gets missed alot...it's called "exhaust height"...what that means is,the exhaust reliefs on these repowered with 4 stroke boats,the reliefs are under water in most cases,a 4 stroke engine has what's called "valve over lap" what that means,is the exhaust is actually drawn back into the engine,if the exhaust reliefs are under water,water will be drawn back intot he engine,end result is engine problems,and big engine problems... :wink: :wink:
 

B-Faithful

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gw204 said:
I suggest you take a look at the 25' Maycraft my buddy is selling. It's well equipped, in phenomenal shape, very fuel effiecient and has a ton of room to fish.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... 7&posts=47

Wow that would be a great idea!

Especially for a 6 pack charter (4 would be most comfortable). Lower deadrise and DFI powered for exceptional economy. Huge open cockpit for the crew. Lots of weather protection for everyone on the not so nice days. Commercial finish so it is a hose and go boat at the end of the day and will look like it did the day you bought it years down the road....

Good call Brian :p
 

gradyfish22

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I think you are looking away from 2 strokes too fast,there are actually some 2 strokes that are better on fuel then four strokes, four stroke does not equate to better fuel economy, plus you add extra weight. I would stay away from an older boat with four stroke power unless there was major work done to the transom and it still sits with scuppers out of the water, not likely on most older Grady models. You may want to look into a boat repowered with HPDI's or Optimax's, they do just as well on fuel as four strokes, and in some cases better. Also, on a boat that size, 4 person charter max with a captain, 3 angelers would be more ideal.
 

jimmy's marine service

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gradyfish22 said:
I think you are looking away from 2 strokes too fast,there are actually some 2 strokes that are better on fuel then four strokes, four stroke does not equate to better fuel economy, plus you add extra weight. I would stay away from an older boat with four stroke power unless there was major work done to the transom and it still sits with scuppers out of the water, not likely on most older Grady models. You may want to look into a boat repowered with HPDI's or Optimax's, they do just as well on fuel as four strokes, and in some cases better. Also, on a boat that size, 4 person charter max with a captain, 3 angelers would be more ideal.


i really like the way you think... 8) 8)
 

B-Faithful

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As was just stated. DFI's can be more fuel efficient than the 4 strokes. For example, I have a friend with the same boat as me with a Yamaha F225 and my boat has a 225 OptiMax. My boat is not only about 4mph faster at the top end but more fuel efficient through the whole rpm band at a given mph. The difference is even greater at idle as the OptiMax and Etec stratify the fuel even at low rpms (I dont believe the Hpdi is as fuel efficient at idle as the other DFI's). For example, My OptiMax burns 0.3-0.5gph while trolling for stripers. That means I burn a gal of fuel every 2-3 hours. With the DFI two strokes you do give up the quietness and refinement of the 4 strokes though..
 

Frank

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Limit Out said:
The transom on the Sailfish is a bracket or outboard pod as I have heard them called. The twin 150 Yamahas have 96 hours on them, brand new. He told me that with 4 guys and full fuel that he cruised at 32 mph. Doesn't sound to bad. Electronics are not really an issue as I have all that I need already.Wade

I doubt the Sailfish cruises at 32 loaded with those engines if by cruise you mean 4200 rpms or so at an efficient fuel burn. In fact, I suspect the top speed is not too much more (35-36?).

The Gulfstream power should be ok - a 27-29 mph cruise loaded should be possible. Make sure you have Suzuki service available.

I am with the others - you should consider other boats. A Sailfish repowered with 200 hpdis would be a good choice.
 

Grog

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Didn't notice where you're from, local service may be a big deal. A pilot house style with I/O might be a better choice (you can have heat that way) and much more room to fish.
 

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repower

You guys are scaring me now with the whole transom strength and four strokes not being able to exhaust properly etc... I guess I need to rethink my options. One of the bigger reasons I wanted to re-power an older boat with a 4 stroke is the noise factor. Being a boater my whole life, having to scream at your buddy standing next to you in order to have a conversation has always been a pet peeve of mine. I also like the idea of not adding oil but anything beats not having to mix it with the gas like days of old!

My question to you then, (Jimmy, B-Faithful, Grog and Gradyfish-22), is what is a quieter engine of the ones you have noted above? Are the DFI's and HPDI's quite as well? Also, do you have a feel Jimmy of what year grady's can accommodate a 4 stroke? Is it only the last 4-5 years? Thanks
 

ELMO

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You guys are scaring me now with the whole transom strength and four strokes not being able to exhaust properly etc... I guess I need to rethink my options. One of the bigger reasons I wanted to re-power an older boat with a 4 stroke is the noise factor. Being a boater my whole life, having to scream at your buddy standing next to you in order to have a conversation has always been a pet peeve of mine. I also like the idea of not adding oil but anything beats not having to mix it with the gas like days of old!

My question to you then, (Jimmy, B-Faithful, Grog and Gradyfish-22), is what is a quieter engine of the ones you have noted above? Are the DFI's and HPDI's quite as well? Also, do you have a feel Jimmy of what year grady's can accommodate a 4 stroke? Is it only the last 4-5 years? Thanks
 

gradyfish22

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I repowered a 1989 22' seafarer from a carbed evinrude to a 200hp HPDI, when we turned it on we did not know it was running. It is not as quiet at idle as the four strokes on my 265 Express, but you can easily have a conversation at the helm. At cruise most DFI's and 4strokes are about the same volume, plus the sound is behind you. I have noticed older optimax's were a little louder at idle then newer versions. I believe they perform the same, just an observation from the dock and being on a few boats with them. I do agree that a DFI may suit you better, plus lighter engines and a higher cruise will be better for running around with a charter and all yours/their gear. Grog's advice is not wrong either, being that it is cooler where you fish, to extend your season, a pilot house would be a nice touch and heat is a plus. They are not necessary, but do throw options into the mix. Regardless you need to think engine, all 3, the E-Tec, HPDI, and Optimax are very good engines, a lot of us are partial to certain brands, so choosing the best for you would first be determined by what you can readily have serviced where you will use the boat, as well as what mechanic you feel comfortable with working on your boat. If you can't have it serviced locally, eliminate that brand, you do not want to be trailering a boat in search of a mechanic and lose charters.

As to the question about what year Grady's can accommodate 4strokes, most with brackets cannot with the exception of newer gulfstreams. Most boats prior to the introduction of a eurotransom will not have the displacement aft to accommodate the weight. Having said that, that does not mean the transom structure itself(transom core and stringers specifically) were built for that weight, to answer that you need to contact Grady themselves, their customer service can tell you what they recommend weight wise on particular older models, they are very helpful with this info. There is no exact year to answer your question, yes models that have been redesigned since the introduction of 4 strokes can accommodate that weight, but some models that were redesigned while bigger and newer DFI engines were out should also be able to accommodate the weight. Each year will vary according to model since they are not redesigned every year. Most Grady's should be able to handle DFI engines, they may be right at the max though so I would still check. My HPDI was right at the max Grady said my 1989 22' Seafarer could handle. I agree with their advice, I feel safe on the boat, but I have been on the same year boat with a four stroke and do not feel safe with the added weight and how the boat rides and sits in the water. Of course there numbers are suggestions, but they are not random numbers, they come up with them to provide owners information that will keep them safe on their boats.