Winch issues ....

Ozz043

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Hello All
I have winch issues and wanted some opinions before installing a new one...I have a 1999 Marlin with the original Horizon 500. I run a size 13 grapnel, 15m of 6 mm chain and 14mm nylon rope. I bottom fish 7m to 30m and the winch breaker is always tripping, then it's difficult to reset...annoying. The winch pulls the anchor up at a decent speed, not sluggish, but then .... Overheats ?? Any suggestions ??
 

DennisG01

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I can't say, obviously, if this is your problem, but breakers get "old" over time and start to trip easier. It could just be time for a new one. Do the wires get hot right before it trips? If not, I would suspect a tired breaker.
 

journeyman

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Part of my spring commission is always to take apart and grease it up to keep it from seizing. I have seen guys sitting on the front of their boats at the marina beating the crap out of their windlasses trying to free them up. Little PM goes a long way. Not ruling out the tired breaker... Good to keep in mind. Does it sound louder than usual or does the motor get hot?
 

Ozz043

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Guys I haven't tested wire temps yet, will do, the winch spins freely with or without load... I gently motor forward winching as I go ( even tried winching with one engine to keep revs up ) ... But then it trips...once the chain is on its fine all the way to the top. :hmm
 

ocnslr

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While I would suggest that your problem is related to either the wiring or the motor, I will note that the manual for that windlass specifies 12mm line, not 14mm.

I would check all the wiring connections for corrosion and tightness. A small voltage drop along the way will cause the windlass motor to draw more current.

Brian
 

Ozz043

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Thanks OCNSIR
the Marlin had 14mm when I got her, I had troubles, checked the manual it and
Says 12-14mm, 6mm chain. I tried 12mm but it kept jamming in the windlass. The 14mm is fine except for the splice....
I'm getting a sparky to check things out as I agree it may be a voltage problem.
 

Ozz043

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Got it sorted just forgot to post it...I have 100m of 14mm nylon rope, I pulled 50m out and bundled it up on the shelf outside the rope locker ( didn't cut it )...hasn't missed a beat since. The winch definitely needs a roomy locker to work properly :dance
 

ocnslr

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Ozz043 said:
Got it sorted just forgot to post it...I have 100m of 14mm nylon rope, I pulled 50m out and bundled it up on the shelf outside the rope locker ( didn't cut it )...hasn't missed a beat since. The winch definitely needs a roomy locker to work properly :dance

The most common cause of unsatisfactory winch performance is inadequate "fall" for the rode. This is the distance from the bottom of the windlass to the top of the stacked rode in the locker, and every windlass manufacturer says it should be a minimum of 12" for a horizontal windlass. Vertical windlasses require more 'fall' due to the rode having to turn 90* to fall into the locker.

When 3-strand line gets stiffer with salt, it becomes more difficult to get it to lay down in the locker, and the line will often push back up against the windlass, thereby losing its bit in the gypsy.

A big improvement can be gained by shifting to 8-plait line (or even 12-plait), as it drops into the locker more like chain, disperses itself and takes up far less space in the anchor locker. We have no problem with 300-ft of 1/2" 8-plait and 30-ft of 1/4" chain in the locker. The remainder of the 600-ft rode is in the connected storage under the forward end of the V-berth, so we really have 600-ft available on the windlass.

Brian
 

Ozz043

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OCNSIR
I agree with all of your post, though I had to see it to believe it. I guess it's because I replaced the rope and it's nice and supple.

What still gives me grief is the plait joining the rope to the chain, the windlass struggles to grip and turn it into the locker.....any tips? The 14mm may be a little large at this point ? It works fine other than that ...

When I tried the 12mm it continually jammed in the windlass...though come to think of it I have not tried it with increased fall :hmm

The plait is as tight as I can get it, I've tried wrapping the tag end with cord but that didn't help because it stiffened it too much, it did keep the tag ends protected though. The latest effort I have used "knot sense" to keep tag ends locked in nice and tight, it's a nylon glue used with fly tying.

You thoughts would be appreciated....
 

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By "plait", are you trying to refer to the "splice" at the chain to rope junction?

It could be a bad splice. What do you mean by the "tag" ends? Are you referring to the leftover strands from making the splice that protrude slightly from the splice? If it's not a tapered splice, that could be part of the problem, too.
 

Ozz043

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DennisG, right on both counts...I don't know how to taper the splice..
the splice is tight enough, the leftover strands...or tag ends are cut in nice and tight then glued so the spinning capstan doesn't pull them out.
 

DennisG01

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It sounds like there could be two issues giving you problems. One is that the splice might be TOO tight. A proper splice will be flexible (somewhat, anyways) but still be plenty secure. Now, the glued ends could be the real issue - causing the spot where the ends are to be thick and unflexible, but also could be "slippery" where the glue is. Now, the other thing that the glue can possibly be doing is keeping the the rest of the splice from flexing since the glue is basically "holding onto" the ends and making a fixed point... as opposed to regular ends where they would flex and even pull into the splice a bit. Which, talking about "pulling in"... that's perfectly fine if they pull in a bit - they strength of a splice comes not from the ends "holding tight", but instead the entire length of the spliced ends woven back through and the friction/tension that is created as the line is pulled. Think of "Chinese handcuffs".

Now, if it was me, I would just cut the splice off and redo it - making sure to taper the splice. Since you're not comfortable with splicing, there are two (inexpensive) options that I can think of. One, check around the marina - invariably, there's gotta be someone there that knows how to splice. If not, check local marine stores for that service. Second, learn how to splice - buy some rope to practice with and practice at home. New England Ropes has a pretty good "how to" (look for something called a 'back splice' or 'chain splice').

You mentioned that the rope is fairly new and pliable so that shouldn't be the issue. However, a couple times a year I wash my rope (especially for the boats that have windlasses) right in the anchor locker. And then, once in a while (once every year or two) I remove it (or plug the locker drains, depending on the boat) and soak it in water with fabric softener added. Also, buying 'premium' rope helps quite a bit, too.

As a side note, and this has nothing to do with anything you're doing, it's a shame that your locker is too small to be able to handle the amount of rode you have - which is by no means excessive. I added a windlass to my Sea Ray Sundancer (28') and I have 50' of chain and 300' of line (pretty much the same as you) and there are absolutely NO issues with the line falling into the locker. The 'fall" distance is a bit over 36" and the floor is very wide, too (another 36" at the back and a bit less than that fore and aft). A boat the size of the Marlin should definitely have a bigger locker - or at least from what you're saying, it sounds like it's on the small side, anyways.
 

Ozz043

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DennisG01
Thanks for the input, great thoughts and definitely appreciated. I am comfortable with slicing just not a tapered splice ? The splice is still very flexible 6" long and only the very tips of the tag ends are glued, not slippery. This rope is brand new, 3 months and good quality nylon, I tried soaking the original in softener but it was past rehab unfortunately. I think the main problem is that the splice is too thick for the capstan and so it doesn't grab and roll it into the locker, also the winch is located towards the front of the locker where the fall is not as great as the aft...otherwise the size of the locker would be fine.
I will photograph the splice and post, I might try the 12mm again as explained in previous post, last resort though.