Winterising 1999 Sailfish

[Andrew93]

I have never had a boat with this many systems that need attention for the winter months. I am very familiar with the motors and what to do there, it's the water systems. The manual says for the fresh water system to just let it run dry and that is enough, but I question if that is really enough? Should I find a way to run RV antifreeze through it? Also how is the hot water heater drained and taken care of? My parents old campers had bypass valves and drains, but I don't see that here.

The shower drain has a sump pump from what I understand, I was planning on dumping a gallon or enough to make it cycle through the drain.

I had the black water tank pumped, but after he left I noticed water was drawn into the bowl through the seacock I think. I pumped it into the tank and was gonna put some regular concentrated antifreeze to mix with any water in there unless anyone here tells me otherwise. I think the maserator is seized, I tried hitting it and I blew the fuse right away, I have to find where it is exactly.

I popped the cap in the floor of the cabin and I think the one on the starboard side is the maserator line and the port is the shower sump pump drain?

I was disappointed how vague the manual was, but knew I could find the answers here

Let me know if there is anything I am missing please. I know I will have a lot more questions through the winter when I start working on it here and there and even more inn the spring when it's time to launch, so bear with me!

Thanks for the help

Andrew

 

[Another Distraction]

You have to run the pink stuff through all the systems. Yes the hot water tank needs winterizing too. Get the hot water tank model and call them. Every tank I worked on has a valve at bottom and relief valve up top. Yes your idea is fine for sump pump. Head, pull the intake hose off the sea cock and put hose into pink antifreeze. Flush away.

Open entire cabin floor, don't work through the little inspection plate.

Good luck.

 

[DennisG01]

Just to add on to the above... The fresh water tank, black water tank and hot water heater do not necessarily need any pink stuff in them if you've drained/emptied them. The little bit that remains will not cause any problems. The hot water heater should specifically NOT have AF put into it as it could cause problems come spring. All of the lines, however, should have pink ran through them to each faucet. No, boats don't typically come with hot water heater bypass valves, but you could install one (check Camco). Depending on your hookup, you may just be able to use a short length of garden hose to connect the cold and hot water line together to bypass.

This is the way I do it with my Sundancer, I can't say if it'll work perfectly for your setup, but should give you some ideas.

If the video doesn't show, this is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju0StmdRaW0

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju0StmdRaW0[/youtube]

 

[Andrew93]

Thanks for the replies. I plan on going down to the boat the end of this week (I live about 90min from where I keep it at my parents Cape house). I did not notice a drain on the hot water heater and I felt all around, I thought this seemed odd. I will probably build a bypass setup like the RV's have, it should be pretty easy to do I imagine. I guess I can drain the heater from the intake line and hopefully that will be enough.

Where can I find the macerator and the fresh water pump in this boat to avoid removing too many panels? The fresh water tank is in the rear and the black water towards the front. Is the fresh water pump accessible to hook a hose up tp it like in the video? That is exactly what we used to do with my parents old campers and it worked great.

Andrew

 

[reelserious]

Don't know the answer on the macerator location (and hope I never need to), but the fresh water pump should be located behind the back panel in the aft (coffin) berth.

The hot water heater should have a drain faucet on the starbord side, bow end of the heater. The pressure relief valve should be on the port side, bow facing end, just flip the metal tab up to open. Since I never use the heater on my boat, it has been bypassed for years. This was done by disconnecting the input hose (starboard side) and also the output hose (on port side of tank) and simply connecting them together. This is based on my 2000 Sailfish. I assume the setups are similar if not identical.

Also, when running the antifreeze through the system, don't forget to run the winshield washer until you see pink. Easy to forget.

Regarding the seacocks for the head. They are below the round access panel in the cabin. The one starboard is to allow raw water intake when opened. The port side is for allowing overboard drain of waste when running the macerator. My manual says to close the intake when running the macerator to avoid pulling water in, which I assume is what happened when you were pumped out.

The shower sump is just aft of the above two seacocks. If you reach under there towards the aft cabin you will feel a box-like structure. That is the sump. Reach inside and you will feel the float switch. I always lift up the float to drain any water in there before I add antifreeze via the shower drain. This way the antifreeze is sure not to be diluted.

Hope this helps.

John

 

[Another Distraction]

Go to the grady site and download the 272 owners manual. This will help you identify the systems and their locations.

 

[Another Distraction]

You will not have any issue with the hot water tank due to leaving pink antifreeze in it. People only bypass the hot water tank to save themselves $ on the pink stuff. Bypassing saves you six gallons of antifreeze.

 

[DennisG01]

No, the main reason to avoid putting AF in the tank is that AF can cause the element to burn out and lead to a harder-to-get-rid-of smell. If it's properly flushed numerous times before it's turned on, it'll be fine. But I do agree that putting AF in the tank is a waste of money since it's absolutely not needed.

 

[Another Distraction]

If you have smells, discoloration or bad taste in your water, change the anode in the Raritan tank. This should be part of your maintenance anyhow. Smelly water is no fun!

Dennis G01. Exactly why does the heating element fail after being in contact with nontoxic antifreeze?

Bypassing and or leaving a tank empty then suppling electricity to the element causes it to overheat and fail.

 

[DennisG01]

I've worked part time/full time in the boating industry for 25 years. A few years back (maybe it was longer... time seams to go much faster nowadays) an Atwood (another hot water heater manufacturer) rep came by to tell us about new products and this topic had come up during conversation. Apparently the AF will burn off in such a way that it damages the element. We didn't get into any of the nitty-gritty details, but I'm sure it has something to do with the different chemical makeup of the AF, since it's not just plain water. The smell is apparently harder to get rid of because it "sets" into the interior of the tank moreso than the typical rotten-water smell.

On the flip side, I have an engine block heater in my diesel Suburban. The block heater looks just like a hot water heater element. Obviously that is immersed in coolant. Now, is this particular element built differently? I don't know. Since it's a 12v element, does it heat differently? Maybe it doesn't get quite as hot?

But I've never physically tried it with any of my boats to say whether or not the element will burn out immediately or is it just a "it might happen" thing. Seeing as how there's no reason whatsoever to put AF into the heater, I'm happy enough to not try.

 

[Legend]

I run my frsh water tank dry via the facusets, drain the hot water tank(mine has a faucet valve on it). I add 6 gallons on pink stuff and run each fauset hot and cold untli it runs pink - Head, cabin and stern faucets.
If you have a window washer that runs off the fresh water tank too so run that till it spray pink.
In the spring I fill and drain the whole system with fresh water 3 times and have never had an issue. I read somewhere that Grady does not recommnend by passing the hot water tank. Mid Summer do a refresh with a couple of cups of bleach and then the multiples system drain and the water stays pretty fresh smelling - I don't drink the water , not sure anyone does
Good Luck

 

[DennisG01]

"Grady doesn't recommend".... IF that's true, I wonder if it's more about not wanting owners to mess with the connections. At the marina where I work, we do about 400 winterizations every year, between October and November. Granted, not all of them have water systems, but for those that have hot water heaters we absolutely do bypass them. It's not about money or time - it's certainly easier to just pour a bunch of AF into the fresh water tank. And if we had to use more AF for a certain system, obviously that would be an extra cost the owner would be responsible for.

Again, as long as it's flushed well, I don't see an issue.

We (my family) drink the water from our fresh water system (in our Sundancer) all the time. I know plenty of people that do.

 

[reelserious]

I would suspect that the reason that Grady doesn't recommend bypassing the heater is because if you turn on the heater when it is dry, even for a very brief peiod, you will burn out the heating element. There really is no other reason I can think of not to.

 

[DennisG01]

That makes sense, John. I always reconnect everything immediately, but if someone would forget.. probably not going to remember in the spring, either. If for some reason I ever leave it bypassed, I put a piece of tape with "No!" printed on it over the breaker.

 

[Another Distraction]

bump

 

[Andrew93]

I was planning on heading down the Cape tomorrow to sort this all out and report back, but between the weather and realizing I have a final paper due tomorrow night and not Sunday night like I thought that will not be happening. I ordered a new hand pump for the jacobson toilet since the old one seemed to be loosing its suction and that is due at my house Tuesday, so the new plan is to head down on Wednesday.

I plan on rigging a bypass system for the hot water heater and finding a way to drain it. Locate and diagnose the macerator pump, fill; all the lines with "pink stuff" including the shower sump pump, and deal with all the motor stuff. I want to send all the injectors out and get them serviced but that might wait till spring since it is only a 5 day turnaround and it is a lot more fun to spend money on the boat then than it is now!

I will report back in case there is anything I missed. It is hunting season for pheasant around here and the puppy is eager to go find some birds so maybe we will check out a few new spots on the way down!

Andrew

 

[DennisG01]

Don't forget to bring a short length of garden hose with you (15' is plenty). I don't know where your hot water tank is, but often times it's easier to use the hose to drain the water to a better location than right where the tank is. If you have an old hose, you can cut it to the length you want and keep it for just this purpose. I have about a 6' length that I keep onboard in my tool box so I can drain directly to the lower bilge.

 

[Andrew93]

I finally made it down tot he Cape to wineries the boat, or at least most of it. Between work and other obligations it took a little longer than I would have liked. What I found out was there is not a drain on the hot water tank. The way it was plumed a hot and cold ran by it, and there was a T adaptor and a real short length connecting the tank. I removed the lines from the tank and then connected the two T's together bypassing the tank. Half the water drained from the tank, and a little compressed air into the hot line forced most of the rest out of the cold intake.

I managed to locate the freshwater pump. It was behind the panel in the aft cabin, 2 screws and I had all the room to work in the world compared to what I was expecting. I connected a short piece of hose to the intake size of the pump and then into RV antifreeze. I ran the pump through all of the lines hot and cold, it took about a gallon. I activated the pump in the shower drain and then ran it with some antifreeze and flushed about a half gallon down the toilet. I also dumped me down some of the deck drains just in case water was stuck somewhere. It took me a lot longer than expected, but now that I have the process down it will be real quick next year. I couldn't locate the macerator, but if it is seized its broke anyways. I really don't plan on needing it since there are plenty of free pompous services, even a self serve one, nearby.

I changed the oil in the lower units and it was getting late so I will fog out the motors next time down there and throw the tarp over it. I don't think I am missing anything, but speak up if I did! I uncovered a few electrical and other issues I can deal with in the spring, but that shouldn't be a big deal, I hope!

Andrew

 

[Another Distraction]

I spoke to the attwood and raritan reps at the land and sea marine show at foxwoods yesterday and they both said you can 100% put pink into the hot water tank and it does nothing to the element. Have at it.

 

[River Rat]

Andrew
On my 95 sailfish the macerator pump is located inside the holding tank. Our was stuck too. I filled the holding tank with clear water and let is set for a few days. This freed up the macerator and it's worked ever since.