Wood Rot in anchor Box?

TonyD

TonyD

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Hey there! I was replacing my bow eye and in doing so, I realized a potentially bigger problem? I have a 1989 Grady White Tournament and it appears that there is wood rot between the fiberglass in the anchor box where the bow eye bolts is...
How much of a problem is this, to have the wood in my bow rotted out?

Thanks!
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Which bow eye are you referring to... the bow cleat or the actual "eye" that you attach the winch strap to? From the picture, it looks more like the bow cleat.
 
The bow eye that I attached the winch strap to. The picture posted above his inside the anchor box on the inside of the bow/hull where I would tighten down the bow eye/u-bolt.
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That looks like you'll have to do some reinforcing and glass work.
 
OK, since it's the bow eye and not the cleat, this is easier. Grind away the glass skin on the inside - back till all the wood is gone and you get to clean glass. Glass in a new piece of plywood and drill the holes. The wood is used the spread the load of the bow eye over a greater area.

Options:
Pressure treated... marine... aluminum... SS... fully encapsulated plywood, including oversized holes...
 
DennisG01 said:
OK, since it's the bow eye and not the cleat, this is easier. Grind away the glass skin on the inside - back till all the wood is gone and you get to clean glass. Glass in a new piece of plywood and drill the holes. The wood is used the spread the load of the bow eye over a greater area.

Options:
Pressure treated... marine... aluminum... SS... fully encapsulated plywood, including oversized holes...
Click to expand...
As always, thank you, Dennis with the helpful responses!

So I have this straight, grind back the inside glass - how much? Not sure how far around or inside the wood goes?

Once glass is grinded out, begin to grind out the old wood. Replace with (Can I use foam? I still have some left over when I did the floor) and re-glass on top of that ... I got that all correct?
 
The picture isn't what I would expect...maybe its too close for me to get a perspective...
Don't use foam. The object is to reinforce the eye bolt so that it is impossible to pull it thru under strain of the winch.

Usually the bow eye has a v-shaped wedge of wood reinforcing the glass. maybe 9 or 10 inches tall wedged into the v shape of the hull, centered on the U bolt holes.
The wedge is glassed in so that there is a flat surface for the U bolt nuts and washers. A lot of times there is a strip of aluminum or SS used as a giant "washer"
 
Tony, once you start grinding and getting into this it will make more sense. Maybe I don't understand your question about foam - foam is not structural - where are you thinking of using it?

The wood isn't very big - grind back to fresh/good glass about 3" past the size of the wood you anticipate re-using. The will give enough area for the new piece of glass you'll lay on top of the wood and tab into the hull.
 
Hey! Foam as in Divinycell - sorry for not clarifying.

I think I am getting it, between skunk boat's reply and yours.. I am going to have to get in there and start grinding out.
 
I'm honestly not sure if Divinycell is meant for this application. It's fantastic for large spans, but there is a huge compression force on this area, spread over a very small area. Much different than what a floor or even a transom would see. I'm not saying don't use it, but I would do some research and maybe contact Diab if you wanted to go this route. I suppose if you saturated it with enough epoxy...

Personally, I'd just go with plywood - even over Starboard as that may not fare as well in this application... at least without enough load spreading by using a plate. I'd oversize holes in the plywood, fill with epoxy, then redrill the proper sized holes and also put a few (wet) coats of epoxy over the entire thing till it stopped absorbing.
 
Thanks, Dennis - I had to step away from this project for a few but now back on this -

So, I got all th glass out of the way and all the old wood - wasn't much wood left at all - pretty much just wood dust and pieces so I can't tell how it was played behind the glass. I think that's my next challenge,
How to lay back in some plywood over a beveled area (the V of the Bow) - would I shape a 3/4" piece of plywood to the shape of the bow inside and then cut my holes? Not sure how I would lay it in -

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Yes, Tony, I would shape the plywood to roughly the contour of the V. Then use thickened epoxy to take up any irregularities - that will help so you don't have to get that V-shape to be perfect. First, though, more grinding... that "lip" where you cut the wood out... grind that back till you get to clean glass and then another 2" to 3" or so after that. The extra 2" to 3"... just enough to expose clean glass. Do the same (get to clean glass) in the area inside the "lip". You don't have to get super crazy with this - this is rough carpentry - but the strength/longevity of this repair is largely due to the prep work. You can use thickened epoxy again to fair along the edges of the plywood to make it easier to lay the glass on.

I also see that the holes appear to be buggered up and possibly had water damage causing delamination. The can cause a weak spot which, at the very least, may allow the sealant to fail letting water in again. You may need to do more grinding in and around the holes to get to solid/clean glass and then rebuild the area with some layers of glass. Then re-drill the holes. Try to do everything from the inside so you don't have to mess with re-gelcoating on the exterior.

I think I briefly mentioned something about this above, but you can wait to re-drill the holes till after the wood is back in place. Re-drill the holes about 1/4" bigger than you need them to be. Then fill them with epoxy and re-drill the properly sized holes. If you ever get a leak again, it won't matter as the water will never touch the wood.

If you've never done this before, it might sound like a daunting task. It's not really "hard", there's just a lot of little steps. Once you've done this a few times, it's pretty straight forward. But since you've got experience with fiberglassing, this should be very easy for you.
 
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best part is that it doesn't have to be pretty... This is a great project to get your feet wet with fiberglass repairs .

Look at WEST SYSTEM website. Lots of info there.
 
was there any visible clue to this rot from the outside?

the trick to this is to get the two bow eye holes to line up and to prevent a future leak.

i'd first fill the two current hull holes with epoxy filler after gouging them out a little from the inside at an angle with a drill to get to fresh glass and so there is a taper to the repairs and the patches will not pop out of the hull. you can make a simple cardboard mold from the outside for this and fill from the inside.

i'd use solid hardwood for the replacement block

once the new block is dry fit i'd then predrill the bow eye holes into the wooden block with a drill press if possible to be sure they are straight and line up to the bow eye.

i'd then paint the block with a couple of coats of epoxy sealer like rot doctor before the install. the sealer will penetrate into the wood to prevent future rot. also you can apply epoxy sealer inside the eye holes with a pipe cleaner instead of the oversized hole trick. it's easier and the sealer will fully penetrate the wood

once you have done that you can drill the new hull holes from the outside very carefully. i'd use a centrepunch and then a 1/8" pilot hole to be sure they line up.

then install. i'd use epoxy filler as dennis suggests and to get it to bond properly i'd bolt the block in place with the bow eye and gently tighten but with the bow eye shafts wrapped in masking tape so they don't bond to the epoxy.

once the epoxy dries knock out the bow eye with a mallet, remove the masking tape and this time coat the last inch or two of the bolt shafts with 3m 4200 and reinstall and tighten.
 
Dennis - perfect! Thank you!! Yeah I thought I might have to smooth out the lip bit more, so the plywood lays nicely flat, at least that was my thinking anyways. I have to admit, I start to get a little scared by grinding further than what I have already for fear I am going to go too far and start going through the other side and out through the gelcoat!!

The holes that look a little buggered up - yes, I did notice that - and that is a concern of mine with also taking into consideration (which was going to be part of my next question) the bow eye replacement I have is just a bit smaller than what I had - meaning the U - in the bolt does not match the holes. I have ordered returned - ordered again, the only two bow eyes that are 1/2 thread - both are on the short side. So since I have some repair work to do with the holes anyways, wondering if I should just epoxy one of the holes and re-drill the hole to compensate for the offset? More on this once I figure out this part of it, how to really correct the hole to begin with though. ..

Skunkboat - yeah, I would LOVE to keep it all on the inside! But as noted above I think I might have to do some gelcoat repair - maybe!!!! Hopefully if any, very minimal. This is actually my 2nd glass job, I had replace the floor over the gas tank a few years back .. that was a tough one but I learned a lot. From that I still have the west marine epoxy mixes and even some glass left over to complete this job.

Dave - no clue to the rot from the outside, no.. only until I went inside the anchor box to locate the original problem I was having, did I really, I had a much bigger problem. When you say you'd use solid hard wood for the new block, are you saying instead of the plywood? What size block are you suggesting?
You lost me on this one - "also you can apply epoxy sealer inside the eye holes with a pipe cleaner instead of the oversized hole trick. it's easier and the sealer will fully penetrate the wood" - Can you clarify for me.. sorry - :-) This idea might also change when taking into consideration my dilemma with the bow eye being slightly smaller than the original.
Thank you for the suggestions, sounds like solid prep work!
 
You don't need to grind "deep" - just gotta get through the outer layer. Let's call it "get through the 30-years of dirt" layer. You'll know - the dust will be whiter and when you wipe it with acetone the glass will be "newer" looking.

Sanding the "lip"... is also about making a smooth area for the new fiberglass to lay nicely.

Hardwood is good, too. Personally, I just like the stability of the plywood and knowing there's no chance of cracking. I would probably epoxy a couple pieces together, though, to make it thicker - then shape it.

You can check with Grady about getting a direct replacement for the bow eye. But filling one hole is no big deal, either. Use the "hour glass" method mentioned above for this. Although, if you're only talking about a fraction of an inch, I may not put too much thought into it.

If Dave doesn't mind, I'll clarify what he was saying about a pipe cleaner... You can use a pipe cleaner, dipped in epoxy, to easily coat the inside of a hole (hard to get in there with a brush). He was offering a different way to fix/seal the holes than my suggestion of oversize drilling them. You've got more work to do with those holes so using a pipe cleaner is sort of a moot point. But, I would offer, for future reference, that this method can sometimes leave only a very thin coat of epoxy and from the vibration of the boat vs the threads of the bolt, it can wear away the epoxy. I do like using pipe cleaners in certain applications, though - it's a good "tool" to know about.
 
dennis hit the nail on the head except i would add i am saying to use a special epoxy sealer like "rot doctor" or totalboat systems. this is a thinned epoxy solution specially formulated to slow cure and soak into wood so it does more than just create a surface coat. i discovered it when fixing some wooden house windows with dry rot and it is impressive how far into the wood it goes. if you apply it to the new block before the install including the new bow eye holes then you can let gravity assist the soak on each side. you will only use a very small amount of it. mix about 1/8 dixie cup at a time at most. that will leave enough to reapply a second coat after a few hours.

i would use hardwood not plywood because the epoxy sealer won't penetrate the glue layers in plywood as well, and because if it does somehow get wet then i think the hardwood retains more strength.
 
You guys are the best!

OK - I emailed Grady to check on the bow eye, see if they can give me a part number at the very least.
Let me take 1 step at a time here and I'll ask questions as I go so everything is not all at once. -

  • First step, grinding down the lip of the old glass inside, making the area smooth for relaying new glass and wood block.
    • Later on when I am ready - am I laying new glass under the wood block or wood first then glass over everything? Or both!?

  • Second Step, I am still undetermined of how I am going to address the holes on the hull. I think this is my biggest challenge and probably a little mis-understood about the method. The hour glass method as described by Dave;
    • i'd first fill the two current hull holes with epoxy filler after gouging them out a little from the inside at an angle with a drill to get to fresh glass and so there is a taper to the repairs and the patches will not pop out of the hull. you can make a simple cardboard mold from the outside for this and fill from the inside.
I think I just need a little more understanding on this one before I start drilling.
 
unless you already have a good tight undamaged fit for your replacement bow eye you will want to fill the two existing holes in the hull and then drill two new holes using your new bow eye plate as a jig. given you had rot i doubt your fit was tight.

when you fill a hole in the hull of a boat you do not want a cylinder shaped plug because a cylinder plug can break loose and fall out more easily.

you want a tapered plug with the wider side of the taper on the inside of the hull so the plug is held in place and there is a larger bonding surface.

you do this by sticking a drill bit into the hole from the inside and angling the drill slightly so you can gouge out a small taper. this also gets you to fresh fibreglass which enhances the bond.

think of an emergency boat plug like this. you are making a permanent epoxy version.

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Ahhhh! Light bulb just went on - completely making sense now, almost like "anchoring" the plug - thank you for explaining that!
 
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