Yamaha 200 HPDI's

Kromke

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I bought the boat recently (see nightmare post earlier this month regarding props on wrong engines - reverse!) and have put about 30 hours on it since taking posession. Both motors ran great until Sunday... we were running at 3/4 throttle when the port engine sputtered and stalled, sounded like it was not getting enough fuel. It appears the hose ball may have a leak - it doesn't get really hard like the starboard's hose ball. Port engine turns over nice and cranks when you turn the ignition but I still cannot get it to run.

I will be changing the ball asap but would like to hear others' ideas regarding troubleshooting this problem in case it is not the hose ball...bad fuel? cracked fuel line, etc?

Thanks a ton fellas.

Kromke
 

BobP

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I presume you didn't just refuel, and if so, were both engines running on same tank?

The engine should be firing once fuel has been reintroduced.

I was thinking teh safdety cutoff swicth key popper out, but that would kill both engines.

Get a small portable tank with fresh fuel filled at car gas station and bypass everything in boat and connect to fuel line going into engine. This will isolate entire boat's fuel system.

If it doesn't fire after squeeze bulb has firmed up, take it into dealer. If it does fire and run, you know where to look.
 

Kromke

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Are the pumps you all have referred to the squeeze ball on the gas lines or something completely different, ie. a fuel pump?

If completely different, please elaborate on what they are and how I can repair myself...or if I need to have the motor serviced :(

Again, a million thank you's for the help!

Kromke
 

JUST-IN-TIME

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Kromke said:
Are the pumps you all have referred to the squeeze ball on the gas lines or something completely different, ie. a fuel pump?

If completely different, please elaborate on what they are and how I can repair myself...or if I need to have the motor serviced :(

Again, a million thank you's for the help!

Kromke

they ae mounted on the block
follow the fuel line
 

Kromke

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Well, still dealing with the fuel problem... thank God for twins or I couldn't leave the dock. She arrived from Buffalo yesterday and we were rearing to go when the problem we thought we fixed by replacing squeeze ball continued as soon as we headed out.

Have narrowed it down to fewer possibilities to explain why the one line is not getting enough fuel. Ruled out were a bad squeeze ball (replaced) and anything wrong with the motor fuel pump (motor runs fine on other fuel line). As such, it appears problem originates somewhere before gas enters squeeze ball: racor filter, line itself or tank.

Advice on tips to troubleshoot these problems short of replacing entire fuel line, or racors. What is skill and time required to replace the entire lines? Could particle matter or water be clogging line or the racor filter? Do both tanks (123 and 75) need to be full?

Thanks.
 

catch22

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Kromke said:
Well, still dealing with the fuel problem... thank God for twins or I couldn't leave the dock. She arrived from Buffalo yesterday and we were rearing to go when the problem we thought we fixed by replacing squeeze ball continued as soon as we headed out.

Have narrowed it down to fewer possibilities to explain why the one line is not getting enough fuel. Ruled out were a bad squeeze ball (replaced) and anything wrong with the motor fuel pump (motor runs fine on other fuel line). As such, it appears problem originates somewhere before gas enters squeeze ball: racor filter, line itself or tank.

Advice on tips to troubleshoot these problems short of replacing entire fuel line, or racors. What is skill and time required to replace the entire lines? Could particle matter or water be clogging line or the racor filter? Do both tanks (123 and 75) need to be full?

Thanks.

My guess would be the Racor filter... and I would change both. I would also change the filters on the motors, they're in a transparent bowl, on the port side. They're available at your Yamaha dealer, or on-line.

I would also disconnect the fuel lines to the Racor, attach a primer bulb and pump out about a quart of raw, unfiltered fuel, into a glass container, from each fuel tank, (separate container for each tank). This will give you an idea of each tanks fuel condition. It will be from the bottom of the tank, and that's the worst. Sediment and water sit on the bottom.
Let it sit a while and inspect it. Color should not be too dark, (tarnished). Also look for a water split, (water will set on bottom). If there's no water, or very little, and the color is ok, just change the filter. If it's real bad and has a lot of water, (over 30%) you may need to get your tank drained and washed by a proffesional. You could also try pumping out as much as you can, untill it clears up. Of course, you'll have to have a way of disposing the bad gas. Then, add more fuel and keep changing the filters out every few hours of running, but that can be frustrating. Hopefully your fuel won't be that bad.

To answer your question about tanks being full?, no... they do not have to be full. Not a good idea to run them real low though. That's when you start picking up crap and any water.

Assuming you running both motors on 1 tank, (at a time) you can rule out the tank. On the other hand, if your running 1 motor on 1 tank and the other motor on the other tank, you might have an tank issue, or bad fuel, (old, water, etc).

Changing fuel lines shouldn't be a big deal. Many times, Ive replaced all fuel lines, when I've purchased a used boat. Just don't want to leave anything to chance. Basically both tanks have a 3/8" line that runs to a "Y" valve, then to the filter, then primer bulb, and then to motor. Pop your deck plates over the tanks pick up and trace the lines.
 

seasick

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In theory, if the racor were clogged or the fuel tank filter were clogged/blocked, the primer bulb would tend to colapse from the vacumn.
You don't say that that is happening so I don't thing the line is blocked. You may have a pickup problem in the tank ( broken pickup)or an air leak in a fuel hose. Since the motor runs fine on second tank, there is nothing wrong with the motor itself.
 

Capt Bill

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There is (probably) an anti-siphon valve mounted at the tank, and they often can go bad and restrict the fuel flow: runs fine at low rpm (low fuel-rate demand), but starve the engine for fuel at higher flow rates. It threads into the boss on the tank pickup, and has the barbed fitting that the fuel line connects to.

As previous posts pointed out, you may have junk in the tank, and that can be clogging both the anti-siphon valve and there may also be a strainer (screen) on the end of the pickup tube in the tank. You need to take the access plate off, and reach in the hook it with a coat hanger and pull toward you. Should be enough length to let you get to see what it looks like. Hopefully you don't have a full tank of fuel.

Be very carefu; working around open fuel lines and access plates. The fumes can be dangerous.
 

BobP

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As was said, when the problem occurs, does the sqeeze bulb collapse or partially collapse, or not? If it doesn't, no restriction.
You have to look at the bulb exactly when it happens, not anytime later.

Given the info you provided, there is no restriction upstream f it doesn't collapse.

If the bulb collapses and recovers itself in time, check the tank pickup for anti-siphon valve, it will be part of fitting at tank. Happened to me, had to get rid of it, replaced the fitting.

So, if not, now it's fuel quality or air in fuel.

Add a short section (2 feet) of clear 3/8 in. vinyl hose (get at the depot or lowes) in line before bulb, and run it, it will be easy to tell the difference between solid fuel and air in fuel. Look at it immediatley when problem occurs too. Get riif if vinlt lose when done, don't leave it in service.

If you find air in fuel, let us know.


Good luck.
 

Grog

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If the motor runs fine when switched to the other tank, the line from the tank valve to the motor is OK, and the line to the secondary tank is OK. What condition are the fuel lines in? One may be collapsing internally and you can't tell from the outside. If you pull the hatch covers you can get to the fuel lines and see what's going on and run a new or temporary line. Maybe one line is getting pinched under the hatch cover.
 

tiderunner

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Did you try replaceing the $3 o-ring under the fuel filter bowl yet? This is the filter bowl that has the red water indicater ring in it . I just fought a similar issue and that was the fix .

Good luck ...
 

Kromke

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After blowing out the bad gas line with compressed air I replaced both Racors and filled up both gas tanks. It appears the problem is fixed as the motors ran great over the weekend.

I suspect it was the Racor filter that needed relacing but who knows, only time will tell.

Thanks all.
 

seasick

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I am glad you fixed it but we still want to know, did the primer bulb colapse when the engine died?
 

Kromke

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If I understand your question Seasick, yes, the squeeze ball (primer bulb) was soft when the motor wouldn't run. It was firm when we changed racors...
 

ROBERTH

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I had the same problem a while back. The check valve at the tank entrance was clogged with some particles. Pulled the fitting off the tank and found a sliver of plastic stuck in there, so cleared it out and put it back together and problem resolved. Likely, you have some junk in the tank and it will suck it up again. I pulled my tank last fall and cleaned it out to ensure it did not happen again, but next time the ball gets soft, I now where the problem is and can fix it quickly by cleaning out the check valve.