Yamaha Corrosion F250

[Fishtales]

Hi,
Had my 2 engines scoped today. Tech indicated there was corrosion starting but this year would be fine. He indicated I should considering having both done over next winter, possibly later depending on how they look at the end of the year.
I'm waiting for the pics but assuming he is on the mark, I'd like to start saving and assembling my position of a discussion with Yamaha.
I've run 7 seasons (entering number 8 this year), approx 450 hours. 2005 year engines on a 2006 hull, didn't buy until early 2007.

I'm looking for input how to proceed from anyone that has successfully been through this. I understand the parts have been offered at a lower price than normal. I'd like to understand what the parts cost per motor, the parts list (if you have), the discount and anything else Yamaha is doing to make this easier to swallow. I'd also like to know what the labor and all in charge is for the entire repair. I'd like to know if there is anything else I should do to the motors at this time? Should have take the engines off the boat to look at the transom as well as ensure they are resealed up (assuming all is ok)?

Thanks....

 

[Moxsea]

Just performed the repair September 2013. parts kit sold online from Simyamaha ~$1,200 with the oil pump and shaft sleeve. The shaft sleeve and oil pump is a must as the seal will wear a groove in the shaft and leak eventually. No need to remove the bracket from the transom. if the damage is left to grow it will spread and attack the power head not just the exhaust manifold. My inspections over two seasons went from salt crystal appearance to perforation with reduced engine performance/power. I suffered both the perforation and seal groove oil leak. I do recommend you inspect the internal zincs(4 per motor) and replace as necessary. good luck with your project.

 

[ROBERTH]

Man, this is really scary...what year motors did Yamaha begin to use the newer parts to resolve the corrosion? Does the new seal/shaft kit remedy the groove issue or is this yet another wear issue to worry about over time?
Been looking at some used boats and feel the concern on the range of 4 strokes, but just not sure what years it was resolved?

 

[onoahimahi]

I thought this problem was only on the F225s?

There is a good THT link here:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... epair.html

and a Boat US article here:

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/oct ... laints.asp

 

[Fishtales]

Hi,

Thanks for the input guys. I think I have a few months to enjoy my boat this season and then it will be time to do the rebuild.

My understanding:
This issue can happen to pre-mid 2006 outboards, largely F225 and F250s. These motors are very similar in design and thermal profile. There was a coating change in mid 2006 that hopefully will make the parts more robust, but not sure if this will make them bulletproof but it should be sufficient for balance of the lifecycle of my motor. In the end, time will tell. I understand it is only a saltwater issue and it is more time dependent (versus hours on the motor). I don't think other motors are affected as much, probably since these run cooler. Flushing after each use does nothing for this issue. This problem is in the exhaust and by design, this is a dry exhaust. Reports indicate the problem is worse in areas with warmer water, thus engines run in Florida are seeing it more frequently than engines run in colder Maine water.

Flushing is important as well as routine maintenance for the (4) internal block zincs (most DIYers may not know these exist and they need to be changed). Flushing should be done after every use in saltwater, when the motor is warm. I would say best to do it as soon as you dock. I always do this because I always am cleaning fish or putting things away in parallel. You want the engines warm so the thermostats are open and the flush water rinses the t-stat housing. If cold, the t-stat closes and even though you flush, the water does not get behind the t-stats and corrosion can occur here over time. If breached (and I've read several reports of this happening) salt water sprays everywhere under the cowling and you risk doing a lot of damage.

Anyone that has these engines should have the lowers dropped every year or two (prob every year if older) to baseline the engines and watch for corrosion. They use a camera on a flexible shaft and basically scope the inside. This is not 100% conclusive, the best way is to pull the powerhead, but this is not practical. I believe once the corrosion starts, the process will speed up as less of the coating is left in place. Left unchecked or let gone too far, you will trash the power head and you will require a much larger repair - like $6K more.

I'm told the repair is approx. $2.8-3.0K per engine (parts/labor), with $1.2K (parts only). I don't believe this covers the other suggested parts (oil pump, speedy shaft sleeves, (4) internal zincs, t-stat area). If you get all the suggested parts it is near $1600 (estimate) for the parts only. So my guess you are in the $3.7Kish range for all parts and labor. Add all the incidentals and my guess is $4K a pop all-in.

Look, I know my motors are 2005 models and this is 2014. That being said, the boat didn't see the water until spring of 2007 as it was a non-current model. I have 7 full New England seasons (mid May to mid Sept most years) with 450 total hours on them. I religiously flushed the engines after every use as the boat is slipped. My 2006 model boat is pristine as I am super anal keeping the boat perfect. It is 100% dealer maintained with money not being an object. If the boat or engines needed anything - they got it.
In addition, I do a lot of extra work on the boat. Personally, I believe there should be some help from Yamaha on this repair. I'm not expecting everything to be covered, but if it is all on me I will not be a happy man.

Anyone that has other info or wishes to correct my understanding - fire away.

 

[megabytes]

Sorry to hear that Danny. I need to have mine checked this year. My guy suggested scoping when the water pump impellers are replaced which are due soon.

Fingers crossed. Keep us posted.

 

[georgemjr]

I think there is a class action suit against Yamaha for this issue, as they seem unwilling to help if it is out of warrantee. I have heard of one person getting some help when just a couple months out of warrantee, but all others seem to have been turned down for any support, other than the reduced price on the parts kit.

I have 2006's, but do not know if they were later that year or not. Do you know how to tell if they are supposed to be the motors after the correction was made? I do not have a lot of confidence that they won't be affected and will continue to have them checked each time they do the pumps just in case. Fingers crossed, so far, so good...

 

[L.R.]

A Buddy of mine just had to do His F-150! 1100 hrs.

 

[HMBJack]

Here's what my 2006 F250 looks like after 715 hours. Manufactured in 7/05. I circulated this around THT and most say I'm good.
I plan to monitor annually.

 

[Fishtales]

I agree you look pretty good there and that you need to monitor. It has started, but is early in the cycle.

 

[Moxsea]

Photo's of the damage to my motors, which have been regularly flushed and maintained.

just so there is no confusing the issue!

 

[Fishtales]

My understanding is this is a progressive condition that it will get worse overtime as more of the coating is affected. Best to have your engines scoped to establish a baseline and then periodically repeat to see how things are progressing. I don't think there is much data out there how fast it occurs or once it starts does the condition worsen (I would think so) as more of the coating is gone. So it could start slow, but once started pick up in intensity up to the point you really damage the power head if not acted upon.

 

[Lil Lucky]

These conditions are for the first gen F200 - F250s primarily from 2002-2005. The coating as people are referring to as being different is not true. A coating will not prevent the pitting from happening. This is simply poor metal composition standards between Japan and US standards. I was told the actual composition of the metal has changed as that will inevitably make a difference. They also said that these repair kits are just bandaids as the eventual thing will happen again as aluminum is a weak metal to begin with. I've seen later model engines with the same issues, but are just springing up later on due to a slower death with the "coated/metal composition" parts from 2006 onward. This is also not limited to Yamaha as this is also found in Hondas and Mercs from the sources I've read and spoke to. We were also told that you need to change your thermostats regularly as each engine requires two (one on the port and one on starboard side of motor). There are a lot of marinas that swear up and down that they replace them, but until you physically see it for yourself, don't believe it as its not the easiest thing to replace on these outboards. Thermostats in almost any other O/B is easier to get to as it's in plain sight. Thermostats on these V6s require you take hoses off etc to get to the block. Al Grover's marina (GW Dealer or used to be haha) charged me each year for thermostats (I know you can do it every 2 years), but the first year I did them myself this year, I noticed they were severely corroded proving that they weren't done. The thermostats I was told will control the heat and condensation within the engine which ultimately pits the insides. It is also warranted to flush your motors, while yes its just for the wet part, there are a few cases where flushing is beneficial. When I refer to flushing correctly, you need to hook them up to a fresh water hose for a minimum of 15 minutes per motor. Reason being, the thermostats will close once cold water goes in. It takes some time for the thermostats to open so that the water cycles through the remaining part of the motor.

Lastly, if you are looking to get the parts for the repair.. go to Boats.net as for two motors it literally cost me total $2,000 and some odd cents (or $1,000 even per motor). They are the cheapest with free shipping and no tax. Sims is a rip off. If you need the list of part numbers etc.. just send me your e-mail and ill forward you the list which includes the crank sleeve, dry exhaust kit w/ oil pan, and oil pump.