Yamaha F 225 Dry Exhaust Corrosion Issue/ repower

[Terp11]

Brand new here. Have a 2005 283 Sailfish that I bought new, and service impeccably either at the dealer, or from a Yamaha shop. At spring start up this year, I was told that there is a well known dry exhaust corrosion issue in these first generation Yamaha F 225 4 strokes, and while there is a fix available, my boat is no longer a candidate for that because of the advanced corrosion. These motors have a little more than 700 hours on them.

In researching this issue, it pretty much looks like Yamaha has turned a blind eye, and recommends that the motors are flushed after every use. And while I do flush after every use, that frankly doesn't matter, since it's a dry side exhaust failure, and flushing is not the proper solution.

I have seen that there are multiple class actions suits against Yamaha in this matter, and am having my attorney look at it to see if there are unsettled cases, and potentially I guess I could join one of these suits,

So, in addition to not being too happy, I am wondering why Grady White didn't put out a notice on this matter? Also, why didn't Yamaha? Sure, I wouldn't have liked the cost of the "repair" kit, but 2/3k per motor is obviously a lot cheaper than a 50k (ish) repower.

Wondering if any others have experience with this, and what their outcomes were.

Thanks, and sorry for the long first post.

 

[Terp11]

Re: F 225 Dry Exhaust Corrosion Issue/ repower

Also, on the repower, dealer is reccomending F 250's. The nameplate data on the boat shows maximum horsepower at 600 ( so, 2-300's would work)

So, if anyone has any experience on twin 300's (good or bad), I'd like to hear about it, or any opinion whatsoever on the F-250, or F-300 decision.

Right now, I'm still a little shell shocked from the estimate I received yesterday. But I do love my boat, and she'll get repowered.

 

[mmiela]

Re: F 225 Dry Exhaust Corrosion Issue/ repower

If I were you I would look around and see if there is something other than Yamaha to repower with. Why feed the machine that cost you 50k?

 

[Parthery]

Are your motors completely shot? Did you have a power head failure?

They are worth some thing on trade and can be parted out....not sure where you are located but you can hang a pair of F250s on the boat for substantially less then you are being quoted....I think you need to keep shopping...

 

[seasick]

Brand new here. Have a 2005 283 Sailfish that I bought new, and service impeccably either at the dealer, or from a Yamaha shop. At spring start up this year, I was told that there is a well known dry exhaust corrosion issue in these first generation Yamaha F 225 4 strokes, and while there is a fix available, my boat is no longer a candidate for that because of the advanced corrosion. These motors have a little more than 700 hours on them.

In researching this issue, it pretty much looks like Yamaha has turned a blind eye, and recommends that the motors are flushed after every use. And while I do flush after every use, that frankly doesn't matter, since it's a dry side exhaust failure, and flushing is not the proper solution.

I have seen that there are multiple class actions suits against Yamaha in this matter, and am having my attorney look at it to see if there are unsettled cases, and potentially I guess I could join one of these suits,

So, in addition to not being too happy, I am wondering why Grady White didn't put out a notice on this matter? Also, why didn't Yamaha? Sure, I wouldn't have liked the cost of the "repair" kit, but 2/3k per motor is obviously a lot cheaper than a 50k (ish) repower.

Wondering if any others have experience with this, and what their outcomes were.

Thanks, and sorry for the long first post.

If your motors are running well, I don't see why it can be repaired. Although the repairs are costly, they will be a lot less expensive than a repower. I don't know if the special deal on parts kits is still available but if so, kits were about $600 a motor. Labor will add a lot.
There was a class action suit but the courts recently rejected the case. Although an appeal is planned, nothing will happen soon if ever.
Why didn't Yamaha let folks know about the issue? Ask GM about the ignition key issue or Takata about their air bags. In those cases, lives were lost. I guess Yamaha didn't see it as as big an issue as others did.
Regarding the 300s, I am not aware of any major concerns with current models.

 

[eppem]

I bought a used 03 265 express with F225s (in 06) before the corrosion issues was known. I still have the boat and boned up for the repair two summers ago although by then the replacement part kits were much cheaper. I have put over 1,100 hours on these engines with zero issues. I follow a strict maintenance schedule and although I wasn't happy about the issue I went ahead and had it done - also have the mechanic replace the oil pump and pan while in there, water pumps, etc. The engine was completely torn down. My thinking was if it was the pipe and muffler on my truck I'd just replace that, not the whole truck? These engines run and run - life expectancy 2 or even 3xs longer than the old two strokes. My plan is to keep this boat for at least another 4 years and you can't sell it without proof that the lowers were done.

Heck, both of the tilt pumps died within 4 months of each other, they were also 11 years old!

Forget the class action suit, it was tossed out.

 

[Terp11]

Thanks for the responses. I'm working abroad (8500 miles away from home), so I haven't actually seen the corrosion, or fully understand if there is a repair that even can be made. Nothing will happen until I get home in a week, and put my eyes on the issue. This all developed after my son wanted to go ahead and put the boat in the water in late June. I was fine with it, but not there.

During the "Spring Start", I go a report about a potential valve issue, and was asked that the marina investigate more fully. The report I received back was that there was significant corrosion in multiple heads on the Port Engine, and on 2 heads on the Starboard side. That's when I learned that this (the dry exhaust corrosion issue) was a "known issue" with these first generation F225's. And told I needed a repower.

I asked the Marina to give me a rough order of magnitude for F250's, and was given a quote of 62k, less 12k + for trade in of the existing motors. and as I wrote earlier, was told the "recommended fix" by Yamaha was too late for me, well since the damage is done.

I maintain this boat meticulously. It's winterized either at the GW dealer, or a local Marina (Yamaha shop), every year. I exceed all of the reccomended maintenance criteria, mostly because the boat is lightly used on a year to year basis. So, this isn't a maintenance thing. No amount of maintenace, of flushing of the engines would have mattered in the least bit on this. It's a latent defect, period.

So, I'm really wondering why I didn't hear from GW, and/or Yamaha about this issue before now. They both clearly knew about it.

 

[Terp11]

Btw, the class action suit, was tossed (as you said) but is supposedly being refiled. And I'm not a very litigious guy, but seriously, if I could have spent 2/3k an engine to have this problem addressed years ago, I certainly would have done so.

I'm pretty disappointed in Grady White's handling of this, but even more disappointed in Yamaha. Yamaha's lack of a proper response speaks to the fact that they know they had a bad product here, but consciously made a business decision to do nothing about it.

And as I've said previously, this is pretty obviously a latent defect issue. One that they have solved on subsequent models.

Thanks for all the responses.

Bill

 

[Parthery]

FWIW the list price on a new F250XA is about $24K or so.....the fly by wire ones are a bit more. For $62K are they converting to DEC and installing new gauges and controls?

 

[Terp11]

Yes. Price includes new controls, gauges, and DEC conversion.

 

[1998sailfish]

Evinrude G2

 

[eppem]

Any good Yamaha shop and mechanic worth their salt would have been telling their customers and suggesting that lowers be dropped and engines scoped. Find another dealer and get another quote for sure!

 

[seasick]

Any good Yamaha shop and mechanic worth their salt would have been telling their customers and suggesting that lowers be dropped and engines scoped. Find another dealer and get another quote for sure!

I am not sure that is a fair statement. First of all a lot of us do our own maintenance especially on older motors that are past warranty. Would I have thought that I should scope my exhaust legs? Heck, I don't have a scope I think Yamaha got caught by surprise by the issues which took in many cases years to show up. I do agree that they could have been more open about possible issues but in a lot of cases since everything seemed fine, folks didn't suspect a problem. It wasn't until motors started to blow up that the cause and extent of the issue became clearer. Hopefully, the manufacturers and owners have learned some things. On a positive note, forums like Great Grady got the word out and although some folks ended up spending a good chunk of change on repairs, they avoided total catastrophic failure. So in some roundabout ways, the info did get out. Hopefully the issue is fixed but I suspect that in our boating lives, this won't be the last of the major design issues and problems.

 

[eppem]

Seasick - not defending the issue or Yamaha, just saying that any shop worth its salt would have heard about it before the general public - I too do a lot of my own work but read, read, read just about everything I can about my boat and engine. When I read about the issue I called my dealer and asked what was going on - they were very familiar with it. Sounds like the original poster had his work done by the dealer - dealer should have been more proactive.

I think someone on this site posted about it years ago too??

 

[mmiela]

My f225 is starting to show signs of the corrosion issue, I am going to have it repaired since the engine only has 975 hours. I will not repower with Yamaha because of this issue. Why would you give a company more of your hard earned money when they ignore an obvious design flaw in their engines and did nothing except offer a lower cost repair kit which should have been free.

I have seen Tom T's (AKA 1998sailfish) Evinrude engines and they are nice, look into those if you are going to repower.

 

[Shely26]

Maybe this has been addressed previously and I apologize if it has, but when were the second generation F225 released? What year(s) of Yamaha outboards should I stay away from if purchasing used i.e. what was the last year that the faulty outboards were produced and was it only the F225 models or are other models affected. That is quite a few questions to answer so thank you in advance.

 

[Parthery]

Welcome to the forum....

Generally speaking, the 02-04 F225s were the ones that had the issues. Not every motor had issues, and I've heard folks say (anecdotally) that they know of 2005 F225s that also had the issue.

I wouldn't shy away from buying an 02-04 motor...just have the lower unit dropped and the motor scoped. If you catch it in time, it's a $2K update (do the oil pump while it's apart) and the motor will run another 1000 hours.

 

[Harpoon]

I definitely wouldn't deal with the shop that DIDNT DISCOVER THE CORROSION earlier. That's just stupidity. The corrosion has been well known for a long time. You don't need a scope. A flashlight when you are changing the water pump... not too difficult. Go buy a couple Suzuki's from Eds.

 

[Shely26]

I wouldn't shy away from buying an 02-04 motor...just have the lower unit dropped and the motor scoped. If you catch it in time, it's a $2K update (do the oil pump while it's apart) and the motor will run another 1000 hours.

I really appreciate the reply. When you get the motor updated, does this issue go away i.e. the have updated the part(s) so the corrosion issue doesn't occur again?

Thank you.

 

[Parthery]

Yamaha changed the materials and doing the updates seems to fix the problem. Plenty of these motors running around out there with 1000s of hours on them.