Yamaha Water in Engine ....indicator light back on

[Viking 1]

I had the gas polished on Thursday. Found 1/2 gallon of water in 40 gallons of fuel. Replaced the gasket on the sending unit and also on gas cap. Everything else checked out.Very little crap on bottom of fuel tanks. I am going to replace the pie covers on deck but O-rings did look ok. Replaced both main fuel filters but only starboard had water. I also replaced the small filter on the engine. I am going to refuel at the marina and stop using the fuel tuck. Nothing definitive but both mechanics were skeptical. Thanks for everyone's help.Hopefully this solves the issue.

 

[Viking 1]

I had the fuel polished on Thursday. 40 gallons of fuel with 1/2 gallon of water found in tank. Replaced gasket on the sending unit and also on gas cap. I will replace the pie covers on deck but the O-rings did look good. Everything else checked out. We found a lot of water in the starboard main fuel filter but nothing in the port filter. Replaced both engine fuel filers. I decided to quit using the fuel truck and fuel up at the marina. Everyone seems skeptical of these trucks down here. Thanks to everyone for their help. Hopefully this will solve the problem..

 

[Fishtales]

Nice work. Hopefully problem solved.

 

[wspitler]

For reference, I've owned my 330 in FL on a lift for 9 years now and if I don't keep the bigger 200 gallon tank at least 3/4 full or more I can get a quart of water or more from condensation in 6 months. Keeping 350 gallons of fuel most of the time is quite a performance detriment, so I don't keep them full. I have very good seals on the fuel caps and the top of the tanks remain dry in heavy rain. All of my pop out access port o-rings are kept in good shape and well lubricated with silicon grease as are the fuel cap o-rings. I even sampled all the gas before it was pumped into the tank for a year to see if that might have been the source. I have come to the conclusion after the last few years that the water I seem to get out of the tank in the fuel water separators is from condensation. I now have the habit to pour out the filters into a quart jar every 3 months or so and find a couple inches of water each time. I exclusively use non-ethanol and my fuel is always clear and bright with clean water on the bottom of the jar. I put in new filters every six months. I carry extra filters on board and have used them on longer trips. I also test the "water-in-the-fuel" alarms every 100 hours since I had one fail the first year I owned the boat and had an engine that stalled due to bad fuel. When you change the engine filter if you turn on the key and invert the bowl while the sensor wires are connected, the alarm should sound. That alarm can save expensive contamination of the VST and injectors. Depending on your fuel tank selector, I'll guess that your starboard filter is fed by the larger (main) tank and on my boat originally fed the port engine until I swapped it to feed the (respective) starboard engine. I just deal with it.

 

[Ky Grady]

wspitler,,,, the silicone grease you speak of? That has my interest as I've been leary to put regular grease on them as for some reason I was thinking it's harmful to rubber.

I found this at Lowe's, it should work. I'll be greasing my rubbers in the spring.

 

[seasick]

I have a problems with water in my tanks. I have the same caps. There is no obvious o-ring or gasket on mine. Probably not coming in from fuel fill. I would guess condensation in tank or bad fuel load. When you empty the engine filter you need to drop the Yamaha can filters, dump them into a plastic container, re-fill with the fuel on top and dispose the water. Here is what happened one year. See that little bit of fuel on top? The rest is water.
View attachment 17183

I installed the Sierra fuel-water separator in place of the standard Yamaha cans. This allows me to see if I'm accumulating water and to drain it without dropping the can. They spin on to your existing filter base so you can always go back to OEM anytime.

Sierra 18-7941-1 Fuel Water Separator Assembly

Sierra 18-7941-1 Fuel Water Separator Assembly available at Wholesale Marine. We offer Sierra Marine products at lowest prices with superior service.

www.wholesalemarine.com

I have had at least two seasons where I had what I believe was phase separation immediately after adding stabilizer. I installed Sierra fuel filters with clear bowls to allow me to monitor water in the fuel and easily drain.

12/14/18 Added fuel stabilizer and ran boat to mix it up and get into the engines. Didn't get far. Boat ran like crap. Barely made it back to marina. This is what came out of filters. Small amount of something on the surface (maybe fuel) and the rest water? Nothing separates out overnight. After dumping this out I installed Sierra filters and used the remaining fuel without incident.

By any chance had you added Startron?

The picture shows what looks like phase separation but I would expect to see three layers with water on the bottom.

 

[Hookup1]

Viking 1:
I agree with wspitler's conclusion and check procedure. Polishing the fuel gets you back to a clean, dry tank. Use his procedure of dropping can filters every few months. Drop filter, dump into quart container, pour gasoline back into filter and put back up. Only takes a few minutes. Unfortunately you will get good at it! Once water gets to the engine filters you waited too long to check the cans.

Seasick:
As you know pure gasoline does not mix with water. That's a good thing. Ethanol fuel E10 will adsorb water to the point of saturation and then drop out. Whats left is pure gasoline with lower octane on the top and the water/ethanol mix goes to the bottom.

Because my boat is South in the winter (pure gasoline) and North in the summer (E10) the fuel is mixed at some point. Before I leave Florida I put the "red" fuel stabilizer into pure gasoline. At the end of my New Jersey season I add Startron "Blue" to the E10 fuel. I have had this happen to me twice where I stabilize fuel in NJ before pulling the boat, which as been being used and running fine, to immediately have phase separation in the fuel, the boat running like crap, limping to the lift well and pulling the boat. Back at the house I pump the tanks out and you see what comes out. I'm convinced that it has something to do with mixing the two types of fuel stabilizers.

I have never had in-season problems with water in the fuel - only end of season. At the beginning of both seasons I have some water in the big filter, probably from condensation, that is tapped out. I'm using the Sierra filters with clear bowls and drains to monitor my water/fuel. Sometimes its hard to see the difference so pull a few ounces out to see what I have. Easy enough to do.

My homemade fuel transfer pump setup pulls fuel thru the Yamaha filter can into gas cans or the other tank. I can "polish" my fuel this way to a point.

 

[seasick]

I have read postings about problems with engines after using Startron but am not sure it is the startron itself but perhaps the amount perhaps or interaction with some other additive. I know for a fact that you can add too much Stabil and it can cause engine problems in the spring. I did that one winter by miscalculating how much to add. I posted that issue on this forum and most replies stated that they felt that you just can't add too much Stabil. At that time, I thought that maybe a heavier dose of Stabil might affect the O2 sensor. I never did figure it out, I just added more gas(E10) and the problem went away. I didn't find water in the filters. I did change the separator but not the motor bowl filter.

 

[wspitler]

wspitler,,,, the silicone grease you speak of? That has my interest as I've been leary to put regular grease on them as for some reason I was thinking it's harmful to rubber.

I found this at Lowe's, it should work. I'll be greasing my rubbers in the spring.

View attachment 17395

I use silicon grease/paste for a variety of applications, especially when plastics or rubber are involved. I also use a lot of food grade silicon spray but it has less staying power. I stay away from all petroleum based products if rubber/plastics/gel coat is nearby. I find it less expensive if you look on line for "paste," you typically get larger quantities and usually in a jar with a brush. Check Amazon for Tribology or 3M 08946.

 

[Viking 1]

Great information....in the Tampa/St Pete area many boats are having this problem. Gas polishing company and marina confirmed.Condensation is being blamed but also the last tropical storm. I will start checking my main filters routinely for water and get good at changing them.I can tell you that I could never change the small engine filter on the 350's if I was off shore in desperate need. Main filter yes. I also just have one tank that holds 312 gallons of fuel so I need to come up with a compromise of how much fuel to keep.

 

[Fishtales]

Interesting thread regarding water condensation in Fl. We don't have the problem up here in the NE, but I can see why in Fl. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hookup1]

Just put boat in the water yesterday. Put 150 gallons of non-ethanol gas in the boat. Tanks were empty all summer (tested them) and boat did not go in the water in NJ.

Didn’t get far before water in fuel alarm went off. I drained filters and filled with clean fuel. Got about 1/2 gallon of water out of aux tank. Have not done the main tank yet. Fuel does not have stabilizer in it.

 

[wspitler]

Empty tanks can make a lot of water! Full tanks, not so much! My experience in FL.

 

[seasick]

Just put boat in the water yesterday. Put 150 gallons of non-ethanol gas in the boat. Tanks were empty all summer (tested them) and boat did not go in the water in NJ.

Didn’t get far before water in fuel alarm went off. I drained filters and filled with clean fuel. Got about 1/2 gallon of water out of aux tank. Have not done the main tank yet. Fuel does not have stabilizer in it.

View attachment 18727

How did you test that the tanks were empty?
If they were empty and you added 150 gallons of non E gas and then got a water alarm, either you had water in the tank before filling or you got a load of bad gas.
Note also that stabilizer won't help with water unless it is something like the old Dry Gas which is mostly alcohol
On a funny note, had you added 150 gallons of E10 and there was 1/g of water in the tank, the E10 would have absorbed it all and you never would have known.

 

[Hookup1]

Well I can't be sure there wasn't some water left in the tank. But I ran the boat hard for a month in Florida in February. That will agitate the fuel/water and bring it up into the filter - which I had no water in the filters by March 2020. I pumped the tanks out after that but you know how that goes - you can't get the last drop out.

No way its a bad gas load. Marlin fuel here in the keys pumps a lot of fuel!

"As an example, at 60 degrees F, water can be absorbed by a blend of 90% gasolineand 10% ethanol up to a content of 0.5 volume percent before it will phase separate. This means that approximately 3.8 teaspoons of water can be dissolved per gallon of the fuel before the water will begin to phase separate."

Aux tank is 72 gallons max has aprox 60 gallons in it. I need to test the main tank tomorrow.

 

[seasick]

I based my statement on 150 gallons which would absorb about 3/4 gal of water. Regardless, if the load was good and the tank was pretty empty, and the filters didn't originally have water, I would start to concentrate on a possible water leak from the rains.

 

[wspitler]

On my 330 I ruled out rain coming in the fuel caps by covering them with plastic and tape so that they could just breathe underneath the plastic. The tops of my tanks are in good condition and I don’t believe, short of having significant fuel fumes in the bilge that water can get in to the tank from the top. I still believe here in Florida condensation is the main source of water in the fuel. I have tested the fuel from the nozzle for water before refueling, to rule that out as a source. I have learned to dump the water separators every few months and replace every six months. I still occasionally get water in the fuel warning’s during calm conditions offshore. When it is rough the water is stirred up enough that it takes more time for the water to get to the primary filters. My only concern now is tank corrosion on the bottom due to the water. I use techron marine and or stable marine to minimize that risk.

 

[seasick]

Doesn't it seem that ethanol may be a benefit in your weather? Instead of smalls amounts of water building up into a bigger amount of water in the bottom of the tank, the ethanol will absorb the small amounts and burn it off in the motor
In reality I have no choice on gas, it's E10 or nothing. I have never had a water in gas issue with either of my boats. I have had lots of other issues though

 

[Hookup1]

Seasick-This may be the smoking gun. No o-rings on either tank.

 

[seasick]

That's probably the cause. I see that fairly often and wonder if a previous ( or current) owner removed a broken o-ring and just didn't replace. Option 2 is that there are a few old o-rings sitting in peoples' gas tanks!