Yamalube vs. Other

[Guido19]

What is the consensus regarding using other brands of 2 stroke oil vs yamalube? For instance, West Marine TC-W3. Thank you!

 

[SkunkBoat]

Yamalube is a waste of money. Don't drink the koolaid.

West Marine is fine when you buy it 2 for 1, otherwise go to Wallymart and get theirs for $14 or go to any auto store and get Pennzoil for $20

 

[seasick]

Penzoil XLF for me.

 

[Guido19]

Penzoil XLF for me.

Which grady do you have and what year? How long have you been using Penzoil? Thanks!

 

[Vlabruzzo]

After much research I opted for the pennzoil

 

[seasick]

Which grady do you have and what year? How long have you been using Penzoil? Thanks!

Motor is SX150. I have been using Penzoil for 8 years or more. I started out with Yamalube but after my second mortgage to buy Yamalube (tee hee) I tried other brands.
I have used the West Marine oil ( the more expensive product) but West Marine closed the store near me so I started to shop for XLF at Walmart. My motor is just about 20 years old so I can't complain.

 

[Parthery]

I’ve used Pennzoil XLF for at least 20 years. Never once had an oil related issue.

$17/gallon at Walmart or Academy all day long.

 

[Doc Stressor]

All TC-W3 oils provide adequate lubrication. Some are a bit better than others. Yamalube contains a lot of molybdenum anti-wear additive, which gives it a characteristic dark color. This protects the engine, but the downside is that there tends to be more combustion deposits relative to some other TC-W3 oils. RingFree cleans these up, but that increases the cost even further. Lots of people have had good luck with Pennzoil XLF and most find that this semi-synthetic blend produces less smoke and fewer deposits.

 

[wspitler]

Some of us have four strokes and here's what I discovered regarding Yamalube. My owners manuals (150 and 250) only list API certifications and SAE viscosities, no mention of NMMA certifications at all. Of course, TCW3 is a two stroke oil certification by NMMA. The four stroke equivalent is FCW and FCW (CAT) for catalytic engines. Truth be told, an oil manufacturer has to pay NMMA to "certify" their oils. If you look into that process I think you'll find that most, if not all, high quality oils will pass. I believe that full synthetics of the right grade are best for these relatively high revving engines. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic from Walmart when it's on sale. I bought some West Marine 25W-40 full synthetic a few years ago which was labeled FCW3, but at that time did not show up on the certified list. They have since been listed after I complained about it to both NMMA and WM. Some of the high quality racing oils, such as Mobil 1 15W-50 contain higher levels of additional additives such as zinc and phosphorous that reduce wear and keep internal temps lower. Here's the 2019 lists for TCW3 and FCW , but, IMHO, FCW is not necessary as there is little difference between a well cared for marine four stroke and a high performance motorcycle or auto. The NMMA certification website has a lot of good info though.

https://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinet... Registered Four-Stroke-Cycle Marine Oils.pdf

https://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/2019%20TC-W3%20Registered%20Two-Stroke-Cycle%20Marine%20Oils.pdf

 

[RussGW270]

I think wspliter nailed it. It really is about viscosity, not name brands. In the Navy, we re-used oil as we did not have a place to go buy it in the middle of the ocean. As such, we had to centrifuge it ourselves and so we learned a lot about viscosity and how oil breaks down.

there are a lot of good choices out there and a lot of “okay” choices. Just find the “happy medium” to what keeps your engine running, with what keeps your wallet happy.

Anyone that scoffs at you because it was not Yamalube can either pay the difference in cost or sit down and watch you go fish heh. That being said, cheaper is not always better, so making sure someone else Approved a brand helps too

 

[Doc Stressor]

There has been a lot of discussion about FC-W certified oils on the web and most of it is uninformed.

The reason that NMMA went to its own certification system rather than continuing to specify API rated oils had to do with differences in engine design and operating parameters between automotive and marine engines. Starting in the mid-90s, automotive oils have been continuously reformulated to contain reduced levels of the anti-wear additive ZDDP in order to protect catalytic converters. In addition, most automotive oils with 30 weigh or below, have been blended to flow at the lowest part of there viscosity range in order to improve fuel mileage and get an "energy conserving" rating. This is all fine for automotive engines that use roller tappets in their valve train which puts little pressure on moving parts and doesn't shear the oil very much. But outboards are different. Most designs have cam lobes that slide on top of the valve springs and many use variable valve timing that is controlled by oil pressure. These design elements require higher levels of anti-wear properties and better shear resistance.

In addition, outboards need to run at cooler temperatures than automotive engines. If they used thermostats that let them heat up similar to a car engine, salts would plate out on the water jacket in the marine environment. Running at lower temperatures results in dilution of the oil by gasoline since the oil does not get hot enough to evaporate off the excess fuel. In worse case scenarios, outboards can "make oil", where the oil level increases over time. But fuel dilution can still be an issue in engines that don't show an increase in the oil level. As the oil thins out, the engine burns more oil so the level stays constant or drops over time. Finally, outboards typically don't get run as often as cars and are often stored in a moist salt air environment. So they can be subject to more corrosion as the oil runs off engine parts during storage.

So the NMMA came up with its own certification standard to get around the problem of new automotive oil formulations that don't give consideration to marine engines. The process is quite rigorous. Most automotive oils would not pass the full sequence of tests. Certainly not xW-30 weight oils that would not meet the high-temperature high-shear standards required to combat mechanical shearing and fuel dilution. A few high mileage oils and diesel oils might pass the tests. But they will never get tested since they address a different market. So why take a chance? Automotive oils might work fine in most engines, particularly if they are run often. But they may shorten engine life, especially under severe conditions.

I've attached the FC-W test procedure. Note that it includes a 100 hr tear down analysis of a Yamaha F115 after letting fuel dilution to reach 7%'-..

 

[SkunkBoat]

There has been a lot of discussion about FC-W certified oils on the web and most of it is uninformed.

The reason that NMMA went to its own certification system rather than continuing to specify API rated oils had to do with differences in engine design and operating parameters between automotive and marine engines. Starting in the mid-90s, automotive oils have been continuously reformulated to contain reduced levels of the anti-wear additive ZDDP in order to protect catalytic converters. In addition, most automotive oils with 30 weigh or below, have been blended to flow at the lowest part of there viscosity range in order to improve fuel mileage and get an "energy conserving" rating. This is all fine for automotive engines that use roller tappets in their valve train which puts little pressure on moving parts and doesn't shear the oil very much. But outboards are different. Most designs have cam lobes that slide on top of the valve springs and many use variable valve timing that is controlled by oil pressure. These design elements require higher levels of anti-wear properties and better shear resistance.

In addition, outboards need to run at cooler temperatures than automotive engines. If they used thermostats that let them heat up similar to a car engine, salts would plate out on the water jacket in the marine environment. Running at lower temperatures results in dilution of the oil by gasoline since the oil does not get hot enough to evaporate off the excess fuel. In worse case scenarios, outboards can "make oil", where the oil level increases over time. But fuel dilution can still be an issue in engines that don't show an increase in the oil level. As the oil thins out, the engine burns more oil so the level stays constant or drops over time. Finally, outboards typically don't get run as often as cars and are often stored in a moist salt air environment. So they can be subject to more corrosion as the oil runs off engine parts during storage.

So the NMMA came up with its own certification standard to get around the problem of new automotive oil formulations that don't give consideration to marine engines. The process is quite rigorous. Most automotive oils would not pass the full sequence of tests. Certainly not xW-30 weight oils that would not meet the high-temperature high-shear standards required to combat mechanical shearing and fuel dilution. A few high mileage oils and diesel oils might pass the tests. But they will never get tested since they address a different market. So why take a chance? Automotive oils might work fine in most engines, particularly if they are run often. But they may shorten engine life, especially under severe conditions.

I've attached the FC-W test procedure. Note that it includes a 100 hr tear down analysis of a Yamaha F115 after letting fuel dilution to reach 7%'-..

Thanks for the info.

 

[wspitler]

There has been a lot of discussion about FC-W certified oils on the web and most of it is uninformed.

The reason that NMMA went to its own certification system rather than continuing to specify API rated oils had to do with differences in engine design and operating parameters between automotive and marine engines. Starting in the mid-90s, automotive oils have been continuously reformulated to contain reduced levels of the anti-wear additive ZDDP in order to protect catalytic converters. In addition, most automotive oils with 30 weigh or below, have been blended to flow at the lowest part of there viscosity range in order to improve fuel mileage and get an "energy conserving" rating. This is all fine for automotive engines that use roller tappets in their valve train which puts little pressure on moving parts and doesn't shear the oil very much. But outboards are different. Most designs have cam lobes that slide on top of the valve springs and many use variable valve timing that is controlled by oil pressure. These design elements require higher levels of anti-wear properties and better shear resistance.

In addition, outboards need to run at cooler temperatures than automotive engines. If they used thermostats that let them heat up similar to a car engine, salts would plate out on the water jacket in the marine environment. Running at lower temperatures results in dilution of the oil by gasoline since the oil does not get hot enough to evaporate off the excess fuel. In worse case scenarios, outboards can "make oil", where the oil level increases over time. But fuel dilution can still be an issue in engines that don't show an increase in the oil level. As the oil thins out, the engine burns more oil so the level stays constant or drops over time. Finally, outboards typically don't get run as often as cars and are often stored in a moist salt air environment. So they can be subject to more corrosion as the oil runs off engine parts during storage.

So the NMMA came up with its own certification standard to get around the problem of new automotive oil formulations that don't give consideration to marine engines. The process is quite rigorous. Most automotive oils would not pass the full sequence of tests. Certainly not xW-30 weight oils that would not meet the high-temperature high-shear standards required to combat mechanical shearing and fuel dilution. A few high mileage oils and diesel oils might pass the tests. But they will never get tested since they address a different market. So why take a chance? Automotive oils might work fine in most engines, particularly if they are run often. But they may shorten engine life, especially under severe conditions.

I've attached the FC-W test procedure. Note that it includes a 100 hr tear down analysis of a Yamaha F115 after letting fuel dilution to reach 7%'-..

All good points. You would think the engine manufacturers would specify an NMMA certification in their manuals. There is an interesting blog about oils and wear protection ratings and many different oils, both mineral based and full synthetic are discussed. http://www.540ratblog.wordpress.com Very lengthy, but you can pick and choose what parts are of interest. Mostly deals with automotive engines and like Doc Stressor said their temps are much higher and therefore fuel dilution could be an issue in our cooler running outboards.

 

[Doc Stressor]

I follow 540ratblog. He is a knower of all things. You need to be suspect of people like that. He's too convinced that he is right. But the blog does put out some interesting information. You just need some background in tribology in order to evaluate what he posts.

The reason that engine manufacturers don't require TC-W oil is that they sell their engines all around the world. Interestingly, the standards for engine oils are far more stringent in other countries than in the US. Most any oil will work in an outboard. It's just a matter of which oils are best. The US is far more litigious than most other countries.

European oil standards are designed to support long oil change intervals rather than fuel economy. Much of the motor oils sold around the world meets European standards rather than the US standards.