Your experience with a hydrofoil (especially on a 228)?

[DennisG01]

I hope you own stock in a gas company!

When you get a chance, deploy both tabs all the way and try a hole shot... I think you'll end up with a smile on your face and will probably have to do it a couple times "just to be sure"

Are you trimming the engine ALL the way down all the time on take off?

 

[luckydude]

I hope you own stock in a gas company!

When you get a chance, deploy both tabs all the way and try a hole shot... I think you'll end up with a smile on your face and will probably have to do it a couple times "just to be sure"

Are you trimming the engine ALL the way down all the time on take off?

I run with the engine trimmed all the way forward 95-99% of the time, the only time I trim it back is in a following sea, big swells, short period. Those will make me trim it back to lift the bow a bit so I don't stuff it.

I tend not to use the tabs very much because the little red indicator lights are invisible to me, I've got about 10% of the red cones in my eyes so I don't see red unless there is a lot of it. That means I have no idea where the tabs are once I move them.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I put one on my 19’ bowrider because it would send the bow skyward on takeoff and would porpoise a little at cruise.
A stingray hydrofoil fixed that nicely, getting up on plane super quick but reduced the top speed a little and when turning it would turn really flat instead of leaning into it. At times it do an ugly hop in turning if I went to fast.
My 15’ aluminum boat has one and it needed it. These two boats gave me a feel for what a hydrofoil can do for a boat and when it can benefit by one.
So with that said my Grady doesn’t need one nor does it need trim tabs. I can get what ever I need out of it by simply trimming the engine. Mind you it’s got a 225 on a 20’ boat. A smaller engine with less power may benefit with one.

 

[mdscole]

A little bit of individual tabs adjust for uncentered weight of passengers/gear to make it ride flat.
A medium amount of tabs keeps the nose down when dealing with 2' wind chop at planing speeds.
A large amount of tabs keeps the nose down at lower speeds when off plane and plowing through 3'+ wind chop. (i.e. the potato patch outside the golden gate.)

Downside - LOTS of bow steer when plowing through chop at anything less then perpendicular to the chop. Not the end of the world - but expect it.
Burns more fuel due to the drag.

But the tabs are the tool of choice when trying to influence the pitch of the boat ride. My old boat has no visual indicator of the tab position - you can simply tell by the way the boat is angled.

 

[Halfhitch]

I run with the engine trimmed all the way forward 95-99% of the time

Lucky, If this is really the way you operate your 228, I can only say that you need to get with someone that is knowledgeable with small Gradys and have a good chat. A hands-on cruise with that person will enlighten you. I can only imagine your strife at the helm when running at speed into a quartering head sea with the motor tucked all the way in. This is not meant in a finger wagging manner but only to make you aware there are other options. Forgive me if I misunderstood what you inferred in your statement about your method.

 

[luckydude]

Lucky, If this is really the way you operate your 228, I can only say that you need to get with someone that is knowledgeable with small Gradys and have a good chat. A hands-on cruise with that person will enlighten you. I can only imagine your strife at the helm when running at speed into a quartering head sea with the motor tucked all the way in. This is not meant in a finger wagging manner but only to make you aware there are other options. Forgive me if I misunderstood what you inferred in your statement about your method.

I've had this conversation and if you want, I'll go find the youtube video that has Grady's tech guy saying this is exactly how you should do it.
Im not finger wagging back but I've learned there are a lot of opinions about how to run a Grady.

My opinion after ~2 years of running my 228, if you are in a 228 or other small single engine Grady, trimming the engine is all you need.
If you are in a dual (or more) engine boat, you need to work the trim tabs hard, you need all the help you can get to get the stern up.

I found it

 

[SkunkBoat]

I think folks here are trying to convey that having your motor down 95%, at speed, is not considered ideal in almost any circumstance. You have way too much motor underwater. That kills power, sucks gas, and makes you plow and get squirrely.
Running on plane the ideal position of the "anti-ventilation plate" (thats for you Dennis) is at the surface. This is one of the reasons against the Fin products because they only work when they are under water. That causes a large amount of drag which wastes power.

The video you posted does not recommend leaving the motor trimmed in (down) when on plane. You can start out of the hole trimmed in and raise it as you come onto plane and you won't need to use tabs.

 

[PointedRose]

That means I have no idea where the tabs are once I move them.

When you have the boat on the hard, have your wife push the tab buttons while you watch the tabs, and count the seconds to fully deploy and then fully retract. Always leave retracted to start, then counting the seconds when you apply will give you a sense of where they are while in the water without looking at the dash.

 

[glacierbaze]

I know we have had the conversation before, and you are set in your way, but that captain never said anything about running with the engine trimmed all the way down, and I guarantee that he doesn't run that way. He only said that engine trim was his preferred way of controlling bow rise. and trim angle. Mine too, but I trim the engine up before the bow drops back down coming out of the hole. And I use my tabs many times a day, and have never owned an indicator in my life. You get a feel for it.
If it works for you, fine. I think that the only reason it does work for you is the amount of chop you run in keeps the waterline length of your boat from being constantly submerged. Have you ever run the boat like that on a glassy lake? If you took off with the engine tucked in, and took your hand off the throttle at 4000-4500 rpm after 15 seconds, and just bumped your engine trim up like he did the tabs, your bow would go up, your speed would go up, your fuel mileage would go up, and your rpm's would go up, and your enjoyment would go up. Your steering might not be affected, with power steering, but on my 22 Tournament, with cable steering, it would be very hard to turn the wheel, with 2 hands, and tucked all the way in..
Whatever floats your boat. Just know that you are the only one in the boating universe doing it

 

[glacierbaze]

Another Grady captain, with a different approach.

 

[DennisG01]

I think with more time and experience you'll get used to using trim (both engine and tabs) without a gauge. Truth is, a gauge is nearly useless. There's so many other variables that come into play when trimming a boat (load, speed, water conditions, wind, etc, etc) that a "particular setting" is almost never the same. My engine trim gauge has never worked and I don't have a tab gauge - don't miss them one bit. My butt does a much better job. I also look at the spray coming off the chine and where it exits the hull. Sound helps, too.

Another point to tabs... they can control the bow and keep it steady more efficiently than engine trim. If you use the engine trim to keep the bow down, you're also sinking more of the boat into the water... scrubbing speed at a particular RPM... or having to raise RPM. With tabs, you can control the bow just as well (if not better) but you'll find that you won't lose the speed at a certain RPM (efficiency) like you do with engine trim.

I "generally" like to have to the engine in a neutral state - meaning, the anti-vent plate (thanks, Skunk ) set approximately parallel with hull. Then adjust the tabs from there and possibly fine tune the engine. During longer runs, I use tab trim much more often than engine trim.

As others have mentioned... yes, take heart to the ways we are explaining to use trim. Many of us are speaking from decades and decades of experience - running many different kinds of boats, as well.

 

[luckydude]

As others have mentioned... yes, take heart to the ways we are explaining to use trim. Many of us are speaking from decades and decades of experience - running many different kinds of boats, as well.

This is why I like this forum better than my local forum, the local is full of salty old grumps who say "Stop asking questions, just go run your boat". There is some truth to that but I find the advice here very useful. Thanks to all of you.

So with tabs, one reason I've used the sparingly is I've had them grab the boat and kind of turn, it was an uncomfortable feeling. Any comment on that? I'm assuming that I just had one too far down.

 

[magicalbill]

Luck:

Got your phone message; been meaning to call you back...I will.

Refer, if you remember to our discussion involving tabs. Here's the crux of what I said.

Find a river, or an area where it's mostly calm with minimal surface roll. Plane off and trim your Yam out around 3 bars on your indicator.

Start experimenting with one tab at a time or both simultaneously. I know you've messed with them before, but to learn, you need to be in calm water, not going over swells offshore with wind chop to boot. Calm conditions will allow you to really analyze what the tabs do. Don't worry about fishing that day. Spend time with the tabs.

Remember, they are counter-intuitive. Your stbd toggle raises and lowers your port tab and vice-versa, although you know that by now.

You MUST apply short bursts, rather than hold them down. So many people hold them down because the boat doesn't quickly respond, then the boat heels over suddenly, catching the driver off-guard. Depress the toggle for 2-3 seconds and then watch the effect. Again, CALM water, if the CA Coast has such an area....

As far as engine trim, we've talked about that as well. No need to review. We can chat about it more on the phone if you want. Congrats on the Marlin, and by the way, this is big; Have a diver dive the bottom on a regular basis. In Fl it was once a month. Maybe CA is different, but don't spend 300K+ and let bottom growth take over your new boat.

 

[Summertop511]

I have what Ken at Propgods said to buy, it made maybe 1/2 mile per hour stay on plane difference. That's not what I am looking for, my 228 is modern and heavy, it really wants to fall off plane around 20mph in my ocean, might be more like 19 in a really flat ocean. One of the comments in the amazon reviews said it made the boat stay on plane 5 mph slower. THAT is what I want. There are many days where I'm coming home and I can't do more than 16-18mph so I'm off plane and getting shit MPG. I'd love to be able to go those speeds and stay on plane.

It’s ashame they don’t make the 226 anymore. The bracket model is appealing but you get it, falls off plane low speed in ocean. Coming home yesterday in ocean 3600 rpm 14.2 mph. Easily on plane just slicing thru the waves that kicked up big time on top of the big rollers in afternoon. Could have slowed down more I guess if I tried but at that speed can go thru anything with no bang.

 

[DennisG01]

So with tabs, one reason I've used the sparingly is I've had them grab the boat and kind of turn, it was an uncomfortable feeling. Any comment on that? I'm assuming that I just had one too far down.

Yes, you are correct. Actually, if you want to play around, when the conditions are nice (little to no chop), go ahead and practice "steering" the boat with just the tabs. It'd be another thing to do that will help you get comfy with them!

Maybe you're past this point, but one thing I like to pass on to tab novices is to NOT think of what the tab is doing. We all know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction... so whatever the stb stern does, the port bow will do the opposite. But to try and think that through and also which tab is causing things at the stern to cause the opposite at the bow... too much thinking for boatin'! So, simply think of what you want the bow to do and that each tab corresponds to that bow... stbd tab = stbd bow. If you push the top of the button, you are pushing the bow down. If you push the bottom of the button... or "pull" back on the top of the button... you are raising the bow. If you're familiar with how one pilots an airplane... push forward on the button to go down, pull back on the button to go up.

 

[glacierbaze]

What Dennis said is more intuitive if your tab switches are mounted on a horizontal surface, or close to it. You can picture an outline of a boat, with your switches in the center, easier than if they are mounted vertically. There’s no telling how many people buy a boat, and never realize which switch operates which tab, until they malfunction. There is a reason the switches say “bow down”, and not “tab down”.
On a turn, the outside tab is basically out of the water, if they are mounted correctly, which is as far apart as possible. Raise the inside tab going into a turn, to keep it from acting like a fin, and lower it back down as you come out of the turn.
Having never had tab indicators, I got in the habit of trying to raise the opposite tab, rather than adding tab, and often you get the same affect with less drag.
(you/your is a generalization, and is not directed at LD, or anyone in particular)

 

[Don Davis]

Lucky, I have had my 228 Seafarer for 2 seasons now with the DF250 Suzuki. When I bought the boat from an auction sale, the trim tab pump was removed and the hydraulic lines cut at the actuators, real classy move. So I have been running the boat without trim tabs so far, I did have them on my previous boat for 9 years so I feel I’m quite confident on their use, I just haven’t bought the necessary parts for the Seafarer yet. I trim the engine all the way down for launch and then just trim it up as I come out of the hole and reduce the throttle to get to about 4400rpm for cruising at 32 mph which seems to be the sweet spot. On my engine trim indicator it’s about half way up but I look off to the starboard side to see the spray move aft as I trim the engine up to get the correct position. These are awesome riding boats but I never leave the engine trimmed down when running except rarely when in a pounding 2’ to 3’ sea to soften the ride.

 

[Keitha]

I really did not want to reply to this, but I just can't help it:
You guys are flogging a dead horse with this trim tab conversation. Back in April (and a few times since), we had a whole long discussion on this topic and now here we go again https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/happy-new-owner.32456/#post-215940. I'm amazed that you (LuckyDude) will spend so much time and energy searching for a magic fix to your "problem" when the most ready solution is literally right at your right finger-tip. Collectively there are thousands of man-hours worth of experience here suggesting that you learn to use your trim tabs. You keep posting the same half-baked video as your justification for ignoring all the advise. If the color-blindness really is a problem, they make mechanical indicators. You should be able to go by feel or just retract them all the way and drop them down together.
EVERYONE here is suggesting that you drive your boat incorrectly with the motor trimmed all the way forward and no use of tabs. No wonder you can't stay on plane with the motor trimmed all the way in - you are just driving the bow into the water. But Hey, maybe a Hydrofoil will help.

 

[Summertop511]

I really did not want to reply to this, but I just can't help it:
You guys are flogging a dead horse with this trim tab conversation. Back in April (and a few times since), we had a whole long discussion on this topic and now here we go again https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/happy-new-owner.32456/#post-215940. I'm amazed that you (LuckyDude) will spend so much time and energy searching for a magic fix to your "problem" when the most ready solution is literally right at your right finger-tip. Collectively there are thousands of man-hours worth of experience here suggesting that you learn to use your trim tabs. You keep posting the same half-baked video as your justification for ignoring all the advise. If the color-blindness really is a problem, they make mechanical indicators. You should be able to go by feel or just retract them all the way and drop them down together.
EVERYONE here is suggesting that you drive your boat incorrectly with the motor trimmed all the way forward and no use of tabs. No wonder you can't stay on plane with the motor trimmed all the way in - you are just driving the bow into the water. But Hey, maybe a Hydrofoil will help.

mEEoowww lol

 

[PointedRose]

I really did not want to reply to this, but I just can't help it:
You guys are flogging a dead horse with this trim tab conversation. Back in April (and a few times since), we had a whole long discussion on this topic and now here we go again https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/happy-new-owner.32456/#post-215940. I'm amazed that you (LuckyDude) will spend so much time and energy searching for a magic fix to your "problem" when the most ready solution is literally right at your right finger-tip. Collectively there are thousands of man-hours worth of experience here suggesting that you learn to use your trim tabs. You keep posting the same half-baked video as your justification for ignoring all the advise. If the color-blindness really is a problem, they make mechanical indicators. You should be able to go by feel or just retract them all the way and drop them down together.
EVERYONE here is suggesting that you drive your boat incorrectly with the motor trimmed all the way forward and no use of tabs. No wonder you can't stay on plane with the motor trimmed all the way in - you are just driving the bow into the water. But Hey, maybe a Hydrofoil will help.

Completely unnecessary post. You don’t have to read what you don’t want to read.