2004 33 Express Cruiser Twin 2015 300 HP Yamaha VERY HARD STEERING

[RockLobsterBOS]

Hi
I am having on heck of a steering issue with this boat. I am told that some GW's shipped with a Teleflex Electric Hydraulic assist pump. I have reached out to GW to understand in 2004 if this pump was standard or optional on the 2004. My as built I received from GW does not list the pump as an option.
I have read other discussions on this site about hydraulic steering and purging the air as well as doing new seals on the pistons. I see no evidence of a hydro fluid leak.
Also, in the past with boats I have owned when the fluid is low or air is in the system the steering had more play and it took many turns to go from lock to lock. Opposite of super stiff.
Unfortuenlty the previous owner is not sharing how the boat handled and it was purchased in the winter so my first sea trial was this past weekend.
It comes down to this.
Did these models and this year ship with the assist pump as standard?
Does any one else have steering issues and not running the assist pump?
Has anyone installed an assist pump and if so how difficult was it?

I will try to bleed the system to see if this helps.
Any advice I can get I welcome

Thanks

 

[wspitler]

The power assist pump is not standard on the earlier model 330s. My 2007 330 with twin 300s has no assist pump and handles easily. It could be that you engines themselves are stiff to turn or your hydraulic steering system has problems. The tilt mechanism has been known to be a weak link in the system as well and was redesigned at some point.

 

[RockLobsterBOS]

The power assist pump is not standard on the earlier model 330s. My 2007 330 with twin 300s has no assist pump and handles easily. It could be that you engines themselves are stiff to turn or your hydraulic steering system has problems. The tilt mechanism has been known to be a weak link in the system as well and was redesigned at some point.

Are you saying that the tilt has play in game or just a reference

 

[Beyond A Wake]

Is the pump running, it sounds like you lost the power part of steering if there is a hydraulic pump in the system.
I f the pump is not running then the steering would be hard and it would be a significant difference to the normal force needed to steer.
Check the pump first (and of course if you have one at all)
Electric steering has only been added over the past 5 or so years. Earlier it was all hydraulic either powered or not.
If it is not powered then you have the pump integrated in the helm, that is what may have failed for you.
So first find out what kind of system (even brands) you have.

Tilt is not connected to steering, that is a motor attached hydraulic cylinder and pump dedicated for only that purpose.

H

 

[SkunkBoat]

The only way to know if your boat has a power steering assist pump is to look for it. It should be in the stern "lazarette" just follow the hoses from the motors.
Sometimes power assist pumps are connected directly to the AP pump.

You have twins. Do you have one or two cylinders?. If you disconnect the cylinder(s) from the motors does the wheel turn easliy?

Do the disconnected motors move easily by hand? the swivel bracket (not the tilt) can bind up on old dry grease

 

[wspitler]

Are you saying that the tilt has play in game or just a reference

The tilt helm mechanism in the helm itself is what I was referring to. The tilt mechanism in the helm could possibly cause friction as it is a universal joint type mechanical connection between the helm and the helm pump. It did with my helm. They make a kit to replace the older design.

 

[wspitler]

Is the pump running, it sounds like you lost the power part of steering if there is a hydraulic pump in the system.
I f the pump is not running then the steering would be hard and it would be a significant difference to the normal force needed to steer.
Check the pump first (and of course if you have one at all)
Electric steering has only been added over the past 5 or so years. Earlier it was all hydraulic either powered or not.
If it is not powered then you have the pump integrated in the helm, that is what may have failed for you.
So first find out what kind of system (even brands) you have.

Tilt is not connected to steering, that is a motor attached hydraulic cylinder and pump dedicated for only that purpose.

H

I was referring to the tilt mechanism in the helm itself, if one exists. I have it on my 2007 330.

 

[RockLobsterBOS]

I was referring to the tilt mechanism in the helm itself, if one exists. I have it on my 2007 330.

I do not believe there is a pump. I think when teh engines were removed to address the transom repair something was not done properly.
Although the lack of fluid would mean that the steering would be very loose in my mind this is what I need to check.

 

[RockLobsterBOS]

The only way to know if your boat has a power steering assist pump is to look for it. It should be in the stern "lazarette" just follow the hoses from the motors.
Sometimes power assist pumps are connected directly to the AP pump.

You have twins. Do you have one or two cylinders?. If you disconnect the cylinder(s) from the motors does the wheel turn easliy?

Do the disconnected motors move easily by hand? the swivel bracket (not the tilt) can bind up on old dry grease

This is the plan thank you. I do not believe there is a pump. I am also inclined to think something was not done when the motors were removed and replaced for the transom work I had done. Maybe they just f'd up. The previous owner finally got back to me and told me they had no issues with the steering. So the engine removal is the only thing that has changed since I purchased the boat.
I have twin 300 Yamaha and I do not recall number of cylinders. Everyone is telling me there should be only one. Then a few say two. I will find out when I go out there Thursday.

 

[SkunkBoat]

This is the plan thank you. I do not believe there is a pump. I am also inclined to think something was not done when the motors were removed and replaced for the transom work I had done. Maybe they just f'd up. The previous owner finally got back to me and told me they had no issues with the steering. So the engine removal is the only thing that has changed since I purchased the boat.
I have twin 300 Yamaha and I do not recall number of cylinders. Everyone is telling me there should be only one. Then a few say two. I will find out when I go out there Thursday.

twin 300s I would say two Your motors are new? Original were 225 or 250? maybe you only had single cylider and the helm that goes with it. I think you need a different volume helm to push two.

I'm no expert...

 

[everwhom]

My '03 330 had no assist pump, so I added one a few years ago -- very easy upgrade! It wasn't easy before, but I would not have described it as "very hard" so I suspect there is something wrong with your system or configuration as suggested above.

I'd highly recommend the assist pump - works great.

 

[RockLobsterBOS]

twin 300s I would say two Your motors are new? Original were 225 or 250? maybe you only had single cylider and the helm that goes with it. I think you need a different volume helm to push two.

I'm no expert...

It is a dual cylinder system with no assist pump. It was low on fluid it took about 1/2 quart. Steering is better by about 20%.
I will have to live with it I guess.

 

[RockLobsterBOS]

My '03 330 had no assist pump, so I added one a few years ago -- very easy upgrade! It wasn't easy before, but I would not have described it as "very hard" so I suspect there is something wrong with your system or configuration as suggested above.

I'd highly recommend the assist pump - works great.

Did you do the install yourself? This is not a cheap upgrade form what I hear. 3K for the pump plus need to add time and materials.
Also let me ask this. Was the pump installed near the holding tank? GW told me they get installed in the mid berth panel where the holding tank is.

 

[Flot]

Also curious where everyone has installed the steering pumps, I have one I never got around to installing, it is tight but easy to access behind the holding tank, or plenty of room but hard to access in the bilge at the transom.

For the OP, my 330 also takes a bit of muscle to steer but isn't outrageous, I'm replacing my steering cyls this week and will see if that makes a notable difference. And you should have two cylinders.

 

[Halfhitch]

RockLobster, Adding a power steering pump is a good upgrade but if your boat steered OK at one time without it and has since become stiff/hard to steer, you need to solve the problem that is causing this first. Just applying more force with the steering mechanism to make up for the binding in the system is asking for more troubles down the road. Just my $.02.

Were I you, I would first of all make sure the hydraulic hoses were connected correctly after the engine install.

One way to find out if a motor is stiff to move, connect a piece of clear vinyl tubing onto both bleeder fittings. Open the bleeder screws 1turn and then you should be able to push that motor back and forth from lock to lock easily by hand. You will also be able to see any air bubbles that are in the cylinder passing back and forth through that clear tubing. A bubble bleeder kit from Seastar makes it quick and easy with the quick couplers that clip onto the bleeders but just pushing the correct size tubing over the bleeders works just fine. You just need to be careful not to knock them off as you move the motor.

 

[Coastboater]

I was considering adding an assist pump to a new build recently and the dealer was quoting a Sea Star unit. Pump itself was ~$2,600 retail + install. This was for a single motor.
Generally, the pump needs to be close to the engine and battery. Assuming there’s an existingSea Star cylinder, those lines are re-routed to the pump and replaced by the pump outlet lines. There’s a 50A battery connection. There’s a compensation line and a power lead that go to the helm. The compensation line goes to the hydraulic helmand the power wire goes to a switched 12V supply.
There are YT vids on them, too.
While poking around on the subject, there are fully electrical systems that can also be retrofitted, but I’m guessing boo coo bucks…

 

[everwhom]

Did you do the install yourself? This is not a cheap upgrade form what I hear. 3K for the pump plus need to add time and materials.
Also let me ask this. Was the pump installed near the holding tank? GW told me they get installed in the mid berth panel where the holding tank is.

I bought mine in 2019 on Amazon for $1470 during our annual Massachusetts tax holiday! I had my marina install it and they put it in the transom area behind the generator. I was a little worried about corrosion there, but it seems to have held up great so far. It's also right next to my Garmin autopilot Smartpump.

 

[DennisG01]

I only briefly skimmed the responses, so this might have been mentioned already...

-- It's a safe assumption that it DID function fine at some point. Meaning, you shouldn't have to add anything to get it to work nicely again

-- Disconnect the hyd cylinders at each engine and move them by hand. They should move easily. Assuming they do...

-- Flush and bleed the entire system. Completely. Chances are, that is all that is needed to restore easier steering. This is especially important if some had used (or added) ATF fluid as that can make steering stiffer over time compared to the Sea Star (or equivalent) fluid.

 

[RockLobsterBOS]

Also curious where everyone has installed the steering pumps, I have one I never got around to installing, it is tight but easy to access behind the holding tank, or plenty of room but hard to access in the bilge at the transom.

For the OP, my 330 also takes a bit of muscle to steer but isn't outrageous, I'm replacing my steering cyls this week and will see if that makes a notable difference. And you should have two cylinders.

I do have two.
Do you remember the model of teh SeaStars that you have?

 

[Flot]

I'm in the middle of a repower (with new steering cyls) and casually mentioned to the tech that I had pretty stiff steering and hoped this helped. He was like "oh yeah, your port motor was really stiff, even after we disconnected everything it didn't move." He acted like this wasn't especially uncommon.

Since I changed everything but the helm, I won't know what made a difference, but his comment surprised me. I'll admit that while I stay on top of my maintenance, I hate dealing with grease guns and don't hit the zerks nearly as often as I should.