Advice on a 282 Sailfish

[Zebulon]

Corrosion issue has been found in motors with a wide variation of hours. Again..... assume they need to be done, and negotiate it into purchase price. Don't waste the $$$ and effort on scoping them. You can thank me later.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

If no record of exhausts being done assume the kits are needed and reflect that in your offer price. Don't even bother scoping them. ASAP after purchase go to a reputable Yami Cert mechanic and have them done. I did this with my 2005's with 480 hrs that ran like a top on sea trial and one motor needed the kit and other didn't but both were done for piece of mind. Basically for free.

I agree with part of your logic here in that if the exhausts haven't been done, assume the kits COULD be needed at some point and to maybe have that reflect your overall price. I would disagree though that the motors should essentially be done "just for the hell of it" as not all early 2000's Yamaha 4 strokes have the issue in their lifetime. I think it's likely good practice to have the exhausts checked every other season or whatnot because I've heard of them being good one year and then bad the next. Lastly, the repair kits I've also heard aren't a 100% sure fix in that some people have had to replace them more than once. I honestly wouldn't spend money just to spend money on something that doesn't need to be replaced, unless there's an issue or unless the surveyor/Yamaha tech says they need to be replaced. But that will more than likely occur before purchasing the boat.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Corrosion issue has been found in motors with a wide variation of hours. Again..... assume they need to be done, and negotiate it into purchase price. Don't waste the $$$ and effort on scoping them. You can thank me later.

I agree on the hours part of your argument in that I've heard of them having issues starting at as low as around 300 hours or so, as well as them being a problem up over the 1k hour mark also. It sounds like most often from what I've read about other's experiences that they tend to happen around the 500-800 hour range, but it's not a guarantee or anything if they don't. I do think that issue can be negotiated into the price if there is actually an issue, but if I was a seller I wouldn't take $4k less for my boat on something that "could happen" later on down the road and that wasn't an issue now. I do also disagree that it's a waste of money and effort scoping them now as it takes about an hour to do so and either a surveyor or Yamaha tech should be able to do that pretty easily. If neither of them can, then your local GW dealer should be able to, although that would be a little bit of an issue if you don't have a trailer.

 

[used2sail]

It certainly sounds like you are doing a lot of due diligence here. Get the survey done and scope the engines and and close the deal

Thats my plan , Im just hoping to make sure im closing the deal on a boat with sound engines. Its a very nice boat with low hours but its not the only boat out there. All i want is for it to be proven to me that its not subject to a malady thats known to afflict these engines.

Personally, I wouldn't leery about 2006 225s.

i'm confused on the point you're trying to make

The 05,06 and earlier 07 seem to be the most prone.

which is it?? Im suspecting i think you got auto corrected in the first statement and it changed would into wouldn't.

I'm doing a ton of reading on this forum and THT and it seems that there are several opinions on which generations of the 225's were most impacted by the corrosion. There's and opinion i've seen several times that southern boats are more affected due to warmer seawater. Ive also seen some reports of newer engines that have corrosion damage. At this point i think that whoever said to just assume that the mid sections need to be replaced and go from there. I'll talk this over with the surveyor and my local yamaha tech. My local guy is a purely fresh water dealership so i doubt he's going to be able to add much personal experience to the conversation but he may well have an opinion just from being in the industry. It seems easy enough to drop the lower unit and see whats going on in the mid section and to just swap the thermostats. Im wondering about this boat allegedly being kept on a mooring, if it was indeed a mooring boat how was the cooling system ever flushed?? how does this play into the potential of a problem in the thermostat housing or the water jackets somewhere else??

 

[Zebulon]

The ONLY way to insure that the motors are corrosion free is to drop the powerheads. This issue does not go away for the seller. Unless they can prove it's been done knock off enough $$$ to cover it....or walk away.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

The ONLY way to insure that the motors are corrosion free is to drop the powerheads. This issue does not go away for the seller. Unless they can prove it's been done knock off enough $$$ to cover it....or walk away.

I've never heard of that before. I had my outboard lower unit dropped and inspected last October after I purchased it and then drove it back from Maryland to Seattle where I live. I've only heard that you need to drop the lower unit to look up and inspect the exhaust sections, where you'll visibly be able to see if there are obviously signs of corrosion, or not. It is true that you could possibly not have the issue currently but then have it later on. But that doesn't mean that every single outboard will have the issue as they produced I'm assuming tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of those motors during that period, and not every one of them will need to be replaced. Again, you could buy the boat in 2022 and have the issue 10 years later, or you could buy the boat in 2022 and never have the issue. Lastly, the seller as well as myself could again argue that the issue might not ever present itself. As a potential seller, I definitely wouldn't accept $2k off per motor for something that "might" happen, as that's about what it costs per motor to have the exhausts done.

 

[Zebulon]

I would never buy a Yami of that vintage without proof of them being done or compensated for doing them. Your talking $4K off of an arbitrary sales price on an expensive purchase.

 

[Timbo]

Are you looking at the Sailfish at Port Harbor?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I would never buy a Yami of that vintage without proof of them being done or compensated for doing them. Your talking $4K off of an arbitrary sales price on an expensive purchase.

A. Yes, it sounds like a great idea or theory for the potential buyer to get several thousand dollars taken off the sales price but B. I doubt the seller would accept that deal unless there were issues with the motor(s), the seller was overpriced to begin with or really needed the money. They'd probably just wait for the next person to come along or wait for a better offer. C. As stated at least once or twice above, there's nothing saying that the motor(s) will have the issue, there are lots of these vintage Yamaha's that don't ever have it, or It could be something that also happens later on in their life and D. I've heard of guys who have had to replace the exhausts more than once, so for some it's not always a guarantee of a "one and done" type of thing. You could have the issue later on even after the replacement exhaust kits have been installed. In life there isn't any guarantee of anything and although a potential buyer could argue to the seller that the issue might present itself later on down the road, the seller I doubt would likely accept that offer on something that "might happen", except for maybe the reasons stated above.

 

[used2sail]

Are you looking at the Sailfish at Port Harbor?

Yes thats the one I'm looking at, do you have anything you'd like to share?? send a PM along I'd appreciate any info you can share

 

[Mindskew]

I have a 282 and love the boat but small for sleeping. I am planning on something that fits better for an overnight. Most of my boating is west coast ocean fishing or touring social groups around the SF bay.

 

[Belting1313]

I just can’t buy the whole it’s completely random stuff. Somebody within Yamaha must have done some research to identify the problem. Any large company with as much riding on the quality of there products would have been stupid not to. I have heard people talk about northern boats vs southern boats, non ethanol fuel vs fuel with ethanol, motors not propped correctly causing higher exhaust temps, problems with the castings it’s a crap shoot.
Get a survey and pay a mechanic for inspections and do as much due diligence that helps you sleep at night. However there are no guarantees. I’ve been lucky and bought multiple used boats in my life and I haven’t been burned. Knock on wood.

 

[Zebulon]

A. Yes, it sounds like a great idea or theory for the potential buyer to get several thousand dollars taken off the sales price but B. I doubt the seller would accept that deal unless there were issues with the motor(s), the seller was overpriced to begin with or really needed the money. They'd probably just wait for the next person to come along or wait for a better offer. C. As stated at least once or twice above, there's nothing saying that the motor(s) will have the issue, there are lots of these vintage Yamaha's that don't ever have it, or It could be something that also happens later on in their life and D. I've heard of guys who have had to replace the exhausts more than once, so for some it's not always a guarantee of a "one and done" type of thing. You could have the issue later on even after the replacement exhaust kits have been installed. In life there isn't any guarantee of anything and although a potential buyer could argue to the seller that the issue might present itself later on down the road, the seller I doubt would likely accept that offer on something that "might happen", except for maybe the reasons stated above.

It's the Seller that has the problem that is not going to go away. Yes he can wait for the next buyer(s) that will pose the same questions.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I just can’t buy the whole it’s completely random stuff. Somebody within Yamaha must have done some research to identify the problem. Any large company with as much riding on the quality of there products would have been stupid not to. I have heard people talk about northern boats vs southern boats, non ethanol fuel vs fuel with ethanol, motors not propped correctly causing higher exhaust temps, problems with the castings it’s a crap shoot.
Get a survey and pay a mechanic for inspections and do as much due diligence that helps you sleep at night. However there are no guarantees. I’ve been lucky and bought multiple used boats in my life and I haven’t been burned. Knock on wood.

I've heard a few rumors about it as well like that it tends to occur in warmer climates like the southeast and southwest but not as much in the cooler climates like the pacific northwest where I live. I honestly don't think that's likely the case, but what do I know? I've never heard of the ethanol vs non ethanol fuel comparisons but there is a gas station by my cabin that does sell ethanol free fuel and that's what I use. I've also not heard about the motors being propped incorrectly either, which would lead to higher exhaust temps. The only thing that I can think of would be that obviously the more you use or abuse the motor, the more likely it would be to have the issue. The casual sports-fisherman that uses his/her boat to fish with maybe 4-5 hours a weekend for a few months during the summer trolling for fish is I'm thinking less likely to have an issue. Comparatively, the commercial or more extreme fishermen that go 40-50+ miles each way to go fishing offshore and are going WOT, or close to it, the entire time and are having higher engine temperatures and putting more hours on the motor might have a disadvantage in that area. I agree though that it's a complete crap shoot and yes, get a survey/mechanic or GW dealer to inspect the boat before purchasing, or if you feel comfortable doing it on your own then by all means do so.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

It's the Seller that has the problem that is not going to go away. Yes he can wait for the next buyer(s) that will pose the same questions.

Last time I'm going to say it, but not every single Yamaha 4 stroke outboard between 2002 and 2008/2009 ish, or whenever they changed the design, is going to have the problem. If the problem does arise, hopefully it's just the exhaust sections at around $2k per motor and it isn't a powerhead. Which I think would give you even more incentive when winterizing your boat every year to drop the lower unit either yourself or have the dealer do it for you, and check the exhaust housings. An hour of labor imo beats having to spend a couple thousand dollars or more per motor, but even still, if you can catch the problem and fix it with just the exhaust kits and it gives you another 10-15 years of using the boat, then I'd chalk that up to being a win and is imo the cost of owning a boat/outboard that's 20 years old, or more.

 

[seasick]

I just can’t buy the whole it’s completely random stuff. Somebody within Yamaha must have done some research to identify the problem. Any large company with as much riding on the quality of there products would have been stupid not to. I have heard people talk about northern boats vs southern boats, non ethanol fuel vs fuel with ethanol, motors not propped correctly causing higher exhaust temps, problems with the castings it’s a crap shoot.
Get a survey and pay a mechanic for inspections and do as much due diligence that helps you sleep at night. However there are no guarantees. I’ve been lucky and bought multiple used boats in my life and I haven’t been burned. Knock on wood.

Of course Yamaha looked into the problem but they never published results.
I know there are theories about fresh vs salt, cold versus warm weather etc but not of that explains how some folks with twins that were rigged at the same time, had issues on only one motor. That would lead me to conclude that the problem is a quality control issue and there may not be an easy way to determine which specific motors are more likely that others to experience the corrosion issues.
Yamaha's response was to special price the exhaust rebuild kit and the pricing was aggressive. The owner however was still on the hook for the parts and labor. As some have noted, corrosion issues have occurred on more that just the 225s.
The thermostat housing corrosion may or may not be directly related to the exhaust issue. Who knows, the root cause of the corrosion may be electrolytic in nature where some of the materials are more subject to electrolysis than other models, years, production runs. It's all guessing on my part but what I do know is that I would steer clear of at least 225s and 250s in the early to later 2000 model years.

Now, don't get me started on the first couple of generations of the 350

 

[Timbo]

Yes thats the one I'm looking at, do you have anything you'd like to share?? send a PM along I'd appreciate any info you can share

No I purchased my 282 from the same place my second boat from them actually and have had a great experience with Dan the salesman

 

[used2sail]

No I purchased my 282 from the same place my second boat from them actually and have had a great experience with Dan the salesman

I’m working with Ron and I having a good experience with them as well. Do you slip your boat with them as well? I’m planning on keeping it with them and would like to hear about how that aspect of the marina business works for people.

 

[used2sail]

Of course Yamaha looked into the problem but they never published results.
I know there are theories about fresh vs salt, cold versus warm weather etc but not of that explains how some folks with twins that were rigged at the same time, had issues on only one motor. That would lead me to conclude that the problem is a quality control issue and there may not be an easy way to determine which specific motors are more likely that others to experience the corrosion issues.
Yamaha's response was to special price the exhaust rebuild kit and the pricing was aggressive. The owner however was still on the hook for the parts and labor. As some have noted, corrosion issues have occurred on more that just the 225s.
The thermostat housing corrosion may or may not be directly related to the exhaust issue. Who knows, the root cause of the corrosion may be electrolytic in nature where some of the materials are more subject to electrolysis than other models, years, production runs. It's all guessing on my part but what I do know is that I would steer clear of at least 225s and 250s in the early to later 2000 model years.

Now, don't get me started on the first couple of generations of the 350

I’m asking to have the engines on the boat I’m considering scoped, while I’m there so I can see for myself. I’ve seen many posts by folks who have had issues but like seemingly everything on the net, the folks who have had a good experience dont post about it. I’d love to see a number that reflects what proportion of the engines built actually get the midsection corrosion and which get the thermostat housing problems. You know those numbers are around in some ones computer at yamaha but they aren’t going to share them.

I’ve owned a lot of Yamaha snow machines and bikes and one other F 115 outboard and I’ve never had a bad experience related to build quality and I find their products to be as reliable as anything I’ve ever owned. I‘m reading about folks that have fixed their midsections and then gone on to put thousands of hours on the F225’s. If the engines on the boat I’m looking at are clean( they should be at just 180 ish hours) then I’ll just monitor them at the beginning and end of each season and handle it when/if it appears. Im just looking to avoid the situation where there a huge bill like a 10k repair to a power head or a total repower required.

 

[used2sail]

the engine scoping and the survey / sea trial is going to happen today. Im hoping it all goes well as this is a very nice low hour boat. I'll post up the results when i get back!