Alarm on Yamaha F150

[TonyD]

Hey call, I hope everyone is doing good here! It's been awhile.

Apparently my bilge pump did not work during this last storm in Norther NJ. So today I just went to do my routine, check on the boat after a storm and found that the bilge was complexly over flowing and I had about 2-4 inches of water above the deck, aft of the boat. The water came up about half way up the batter case.
I went and turned the batteries on and hit the bilge switch manually. The bilge kicked on, even though it was dumping out beneath the water line! It took a little bit but eventually I was able to dump the water out of the bilge and the deck. I turned the motor on, everything started up fine - decided to take the boat out of the slip and just get the bow up and let all the water run out. Now I knew I was low on fuel to begin with, not sure if this is important or not - but after about 5 minutes, ow up and bilge going - the alarm goes off. No lights on the dash but I stopped and shut down the engine. Waited a little bit, turned the key on.. no lights, temp gauge and oil gauge all good. Started up the engine and heading back to slip. Half way through, the motor starts chugging, like bad gas or something. Finally it dies and I had just enough motion to get me to slide into an empty slip.

Tie up.. check everything out, turn the key on, didn't even try to start it, alarm starts blaring. No lights on the dash - just the alarm. From what I am guessing, water in the system somehow? The other weird thing is the gas gauge is whacked out.. it's reading and pinned past full, like a bad fuel sender. Remember I mentioned I was low on fuel before? Could water have got into my gas tank and filled up? What;'s my next best course of action to check here?

 

[DennisG01]

Sure, water could have gotten into the tank. Especially if the sender gasket is old - or maybe there are holes in the top of the tank. You never mentioned what boat you have or even the year, though. Do you have a plastic or aluminum tank?

Next step? Kinda obvious, right? Check for water in the fuel. Your engine should have a filter with a red ring that floats if there's water. No offense meant here, but this is something you should already know about if you're doing your own maintenance. If you don't do your own, well, just call the shop and let them take care of it. With a possible full tank of gas/water, though, that's going to be an issue getting rid of it. You'll need some help on that - check with one of the bigger marinas on Hopatcong.

 

[PointedRose]

Glad you were able to save the boat!

 

[TonyD]

Sure, water could have gotten into the tank. Especially if the sender gasket is old - or maybe there are holes in the top of the tank. You never mentioned what boat you have or even the year, though. Do you have a plastic or aluminum tank?

Next step? Kinda obvious, right? Check for water in the fuel. Your engine should have a filter with a red ring that floats if there's water. No offense meant here, but this is something you should already know about if you're doing your own maintenance. If you don't do your own, well, just call the shop and let them take care of it. With a possible full tank of gas/water, though, that's going to be an issue getting rid of it. You'll need some help on that - check with one of the bigger marinas on Hopatcong.

Hey Dennis -yeah sorry, it's an '89 Tournament. The tank is aluminum. I changed the sender about 5 years ago, I hope there aren't any hoes on top of the tank? I don't recall seeing any last time I was in there.
Yeah, my next step is checking the water separator, gas filter and drain the VST and looking for water in the gas - hopefully there is gas and not all water! It was too dark by the time I finished getting the water out of the boat last night but that's on my agenda to do as soon as I get some daylight. But of course as I sit here hopeless until I can get out there, my mind starts thinking of all the worst possible situations. I've never had the alarm go off on me and never had this problem with water in the gas lines like this.

Could the water have got into the cylinders if it got into and past the VST?

 

[seasick]

Does you gas filter have a water detection feature?
Drain your filters without replacing them for now. Your tank may be full of water so either try to restart but use the primer bulb first. Another option is to open the sender and pump out any water in the bottom of the tank. Note that if you have a leak especially on the top side of the tank and water covers that leak, the water can seep in, fall to the bottom and push the gas out. Eventually the tank will be full of water.

 

[DennisG01]

"mind starts thinking"... yeah, I get that. Understood.

The premise of a water separating fuel filter is to do just that. Stop the water and only allow the fuel to pass. Do you also have a boat mounted filter? If not, you should. So, in theory, the water shouldn't make it past the filter which means there shouldn't be water in the VST. But in reality, anything is possible. HOPEFULLY in your case, the theory proved itself and you simply ran out of gas. You'll know more once you check the engine mounted filter and drain the VST.

In most cases, an aluminum fuel tank that is 33 years old is well past it's due date. The only way to know, though, is to fully check it out. There could also be holes on the bottom or sides, but I suspect you would have noticed that since the gas would have drained to the bilge and upon normal inspection of the bilge you would have seen/smelled it.

Your biggest issue, if there is water in the tank, is going to be how to get rid of it. There are huge EPA fines for doing it wrong. I don't know if the Hopatcong area has access to a fuel polisher service - but you can check into it. You could try and do it yourself by pumping (use a gas-rated pump!!!) it into a clean garbage can and letting the water settle to the bottom. Then carefully pump off the good gas from the top into another clean container and then back to the boat or a car after fully cleaning the tank. REMEMBER, gas FUMES are the big danger here - you MUST be cognizant of that at ALL times.

 

[Sdfish]

We have all been here! I found this on BloodyDecks.

 

[TonyD]

Okay, I haven't got to the VST yet (still confirming where that bleed screw is) but as far as the inline fuel filter and water separator goes - see nothing BUT water... -

after dropping the water out of those two, I tuned the key on (did not crank the engine) and the alarm does not sound off anymore like it was prior.

 

[TonyD]

And here is the VST - finally some gas but a lot of water came out first, then the gas came (with some muck). Is this a good sign or not out of the woods yet? I still don't know if the tank is filled with water or not.. - maybe disconnecting the primer bulb hose from the system and pumping out and see what I get?

 

[DennisG01]

Not out of the woods - but at least you verified the problem. The reason water came out first is because it's heavier than gas.

In order for water to be there, it means it's in the tank. You got to at least siphon/pump water out of lowest spot in the tank (based on the level that the tank is sitting at) until clear gas comes out. If you use E-free gas, you do OK by just doing that and keeping a few extra fuel/water separators on board so you can change them as they (possibly) fill up... until it clears up completely.

If you run gas with ethanol in it... you have to get rid of everything.

Personally, I would get rid of it all through one of the methods I listed above... UNLESS you're running ethanol gas (since the remaining gas will be junk), then your only option is to properly dispose of it.

 

[glacierbaze]

I doubt your tank is full of water. There may be some in the bottom of the tank, and when really low on fuel, it sloshes around and mixes with the gas, and gets to the filters. Get a spare gasket, and remove the sender, or whatever is accessible on top of the tank, and stick a wooden dowel, or yardstick, down and see how much liquid is in the tank. You can get a paste from your local fuel distributor, lightly coat the dowel for the bottom foot or so, and it will turn pink if water is present.
Good time to pump out the water.
Then figure out why your auto bilge did not work. Lift the float switch. There should be a pink wire, hooked directly to the battery, or the battery switch, with a fuse within a few inches of the connection.

 

[TonyD]

Thanks, Dennis! I am just going to get rid of it all, clear the whole tank out, replace the sender unit too since I will have to remove it to pump out the gas.

is there an electric pump I can use or should I use a hand syphon? Would using an electric anything be less than a wise idea around the gas and fumes? I do have a manual hand syphon that I use for gas

 

[TonyD]

I doubt your tank is full of water. There may be some in the bottom of the tank, and when really low on fuel, it sloshes around and mixes with the gas, and gets to the filters. Get a spare gasket, and remove the sender, or whatever is accessible on top of the tank, and stick a wooden dowel, or yardstick, down and see how much liquid is in the tank. You can get a paste from your local fuel distributor, lightly coat the dowel for the bottom foot or so, and it will turn pink if water is present.
Good time to pump out the water.

Ohh.. really.. what is that paste called? (Local fuel distributor, I am sure you don't mean a gas station?)

Ohh.. never mind, found it on google & Amazon. That's interesting, good to know - thank you!

 

[seasick]

It is easier to pump out the water from the fuel tank instead of the gas. You can use a hand pump but that is a lot of work. If you want electric you must get a fuel transfer pump that specifically says it is OK for gasoline.
I am one of those folks who does not automatically assume that the entire tank has to be pumped out and as it has been said, getting rid of gas is either expensive or illegal
So pump or siphon out any water from the tank prime the VST ( do not run the VST pump dry!) and filters and see what happens. If the motor starts and runs OK, watch it for a while and add some fresh gas, maybe 10 gallons at a time. New ethanol gas wil actually 'remove' some of the water ( it get absorbed and then burned off in the motor. As I mentioned, don't change your filters yet until you are sure the tank's gas is OK. It doesn't hurt to change filters but if the gas is contaminated, you are wasting your money

 

[Hookup1]

So what have you learned here? How did so much water get into the bilge? GW's are pretty "dry" hulls. How come the bilge pumps didn't run automatically? How did the water get into the tank? At least its fresh water.

Get a automotive electric fuel pump, connect after the primer bulb, weigh down the back of the boat (buckets with water) and start pumping. Step to either side for a while to shift the water around. It is not possible to pump all the water out. You will have to run the boat to agitate the tank and pick it up in the fuel filter can(s). Clear bowls help. Do not let the cans fill enough to get up into the filter on the engine(s). It's a lot of time and effort to clean the tanks out.

It is very difficult and expensive to dispose of fuel. Burn it, in your engines of course. But realize its lower octane without the ethanol so keep the RPM's down. Adding premium fuel is a good idea too.

 

[TonyD]

So what have you learned here? How did so much water get into the bilge? GW's are pretty "dry" hulls. How come the bilge pumps didn't run automatically? How did the water get into the tank? At least its fresh water.

Get a automotive electric fuel pump, connect after the primer bulb, weigh down the back of the boat (buckets with water) and start pumping. Step to either side for a while to shift the water around. It is not possible to pump all the water out. You will have to run the boat to agitate the tank and pick it up in the fuel filter can(s). Clear bowls help. Do not let the cans fill enough to get up into the filter on the engine(s). It's a lot of time and effort to clean the tanks out.

It is very difficult and expensive to dispose of fuel. Burn it, in your engines of course. But realize its lower octane without the ethanol so keep the RPM's down. Adding premium fuel is a good idea too.

I honestly don't know how all that water got into the tank...or into the fuel filters. As for the bilge, well - the bilge works when I turn it on at the dash, but upon my investigation, it seems that float switch failed because when I lift it up, it does not kick the pump on.

Boats already on the trailer, sitting in my driveway, not going to be able to slosh around the gas/water. or weight down the back of the boat, I can lift the trailer though and have it lean up so the back of the boat is down.
The good thing, any bad fuel or fuel mixture, etc, my County has a hazardous waste facility that I can make an appointment with the get rid of the gas. So I am not worried about what to do with it.

Circling back to electric fuel pumps, is a fuel transfer pump and an automotive electric fuel pump the same? When I search for those, I am getting a lot of different results with a lot of different price ranges. Can I get one at like an Autozone or something or a little bit more of a specialty item?

 

[TonyD]

It is easier to pump out the water from the fuel tank instead of the gas. You can use a hand pump but that is a lot of work. If you want electric you must get a fuel transfer pump that specifically says it is OK for gasoline.
I am one of those folks who does not automatically assume that the entire tank has to be pumped out and as it has been said, getting rid of gas is either expensive or illegal
So pump or siphon out any water from the tank prime the VST ( do not run the VST pump dry!) and filters and see what happens. If the motor starts and runs OK, watch it for a while and add some fresh gas, maybe 10 gallons at a time. New ethanol gas wil actually 'remove' some of the water ( it get absorbed and then burned off in the motor. As I mentioned, don't change your filters yet until you are sure the tank's gas is OK. It doesn't hurt to change filters but if the gas is contaminated, you are wasting your money

Thanks, Seasick - I think I have to pull the sending unit to really get a good look at what is in the tank at this point. I was very low on fuel to start with, or at least as far as the sending unit was telling me at the gauge.
I'll start with pumping what's in there - I'll ask again here too, is a fuel transfer pump the same as an electric automotive pump?

ohh, also how do you prime the VST? Do I need to just quick crank to get the fuel through the line to the VST? Or the primer bulb will get the fuel past the filters to the VST?

Running the engine on muffs during this period I hope is acceptable as I already have the boat out of the eater and on trailer.

 

[DennisG01]

Check with that hazardous waste facility - they may already have a way of removing the fuel - may already have a fuel-safe pump.

Running on muffs is fine.

Yes, use the primer bulb to first fill the on-engine filter and then the VST.

 

[Hookup1]

I honestly don't know how all that water got into the tank...or into the fuel filters. As for the bilge, well - the bilge works when I turn it on at the dash, but upon my investigation, it seems that float switch failed because when I lift it up, it does not kick the pump on.

Boats already on the trailer, sitting in my driveway, not going to be able to slosh around the gas/water. or weight down the back of the boat, I can lift the trailer though and have it lean up so the back of the boat is down.
The good thing, any bad fuel or fuel mixture, etc, my County has a hazardous waste facility that I can make an appointment with the get rid of the gas. So I am not worried about what to do with it.

Circling back to electric fuel pumps, is a fuel transfer pump and an automotive electric fuel pump the same? When I search for those, I am getting a lot of different results with a lot of different price ranges. Can I get one at like an Autozone or something or a little bit more of a specialty item?

You still don't have an answer to how did the water get into the boat. GW's are usually "dry" and let very little water in. You may have a leak somewhere - broken thru hull, dried out hose, etc. Spend a little time with the boat on the trailer and a hose.

First thing I would check are is the o-ring on your fuel fill. There may not be as much water in the fuel tank as you think. I never thought the o-rings would let that much water in but in my case they were the culprit (per SEASICK's suggestion).



Autozone is a good source. Some fuel line hose, pump, 20' of lamp cord or speaker wire and a cigarette lighter plug. Solder and shrink wrap the connections. You can plug into car or boat but be sure to stay away from the fuel. Just remember that pulling fuel out thru the fitting won't get all the water out of the tank.



It's possible water going into the tank thru the sending unit. They frequently pit the aluminum under the sending unit but usually in salt water. You need to figure out how much water is in the tank. If you do pull the sending unit use a fuel safe Permatex on the tank along with the rubber gasket.

 

[TonyD]

You still don't have an answer to how did the water get into the boat. GW's are usually "dry" and let very little water in. You may have a leak somewhere - broken thru hull, dried out hose, etc. Spend a little time with the boat on the trailer and a hose.

First thing I would check are is the o-ring on your fuel fill. There may not be as much water in the fuel tank as you think. I never thought the o-rings would let that much water in but in my case they were the culprit (per SEASICK's suggestion).

View attachment 23535

Autozone is a good source. Some fuel line hose, pump, 20' of lamp cord or speaker wire and a cigarette lighter plug. Solder and shrink wrap the connections. You can plug into car or boat but be sure to stay away from the fuel. Just remember that pulling fuel out thru the fitting won't get all the water out of the tank.

View attachment 23536

It's possible water going into the tank thru the sending unit. They frequently pit the aluminum under the sending unit but usually in salt water. You need to figure out how much water is in the tank. If you do pull the sending unit use a fuel safe Permatex on the tank along with the rubber gasket.

Yeah, I don't know how the water got into the tank yet.. or into the fuel lines - haven't got that far into my "investigation" of everything. But I do know that the gas tank was pretty much submerged in water at some point.
Once I am able to remove the floor board and then the sending unit I should have a better understanding, maybe- hopefully!