Autopilot Installation: Success and Failure...

[bartoma]

So, I got everything wired up and connected - the pump, the HDS, the NAC-1, and the AP-1... That all worked...

What didn't work was the hydraulic fittings... I have the NPT, "old-syle", helm... But with the constraints on space and routing lines, I wanted to use ORB fittings...

The only ORB-F to NPT-M I cound find was #4 to 1/4"... I then used #4 ORB elbow, a #5 to #4 reducer, the the #5 tee to the hydraulic lines... In my case, the reducer didn't work - it leaked like a sieve...

What I need is a #5 ORB-F to 1/4" NPT-M, then a #5 ORB-F to #5 ORB-M elbow - anyone know where I can get these parts? Anyone successfully adapted an NPT helm to ORB on a 265 Express, where it has to be routed 90 degrees away from the helm?

 

[SkunkBoat]

I'm pretty sure Seastar brand will have the orb fittings you need, albiet expensive and always sold in packs that have one more than you need...

I had such a time with fittings doing my autopilot...found a lot of the NPT fittings at Home Depot and then ended up needing a new helm that came with Orb fittings

 

[bartoma]

Yea, I am trying to avoid buying a new helm... You'd think #5 would be as common as #4 and #6, but doesn't seem so...

 

[Halfhitch]

These guys are in my town. They are helpful and have any parts you might need.

Boat Steering Solutions Home

Boat Steering Solutions is SeaStar factory trained & authorized to remanufacture and service hydraulic steering systems.

www.boatsteer.com

 

[bartoma]

Thanks - I will give them a call...

 

[jtselios10]

Just finished my install in my 282 and the only fitting I had to add was a 90° fitting for the compensate line. I have the old style helm also. I ran it in the bottom port and the 90 Faces to the right gave plenty of room behind to run lines under the dash. I did have to pull the wheel and helm out to make it all work.

 

[ScottyCee]

Just got done with it as well. Big PITA. They say that they give you "both" kinds of fitting in the kit, so how come I had to buy so many?? In the end it worked though....

 

[bartoma]

I dunno... It was such a cluster trying to tee off behind the helm, I may just fall back on the tee solution under the helm... I didn't want to a) cut the existing lines and add fittings, or b) get two new sets of shorter lines, but I may just have to do that...

Anyone know how long the lines are on the 265 Express?

 

[SkunkBoat]

22 ft but you don't need to buy 22ft hoses

Look at my threads. I just did mine.
I bought too much before I figured out to use Parker field replaceable hose fittings and existing hose.
Read the part about that.

Field replaceable fittings for SeaStar 5/16ID hose

AutoPilot upgrade from manual hydraulic

 

[wrxhoon]

I dunno... It was such a cluster trying to tee off behind the helm, I may just fall back on the tee solution under the helm... I didn't want to a) cut the existing lines and add fittings, or b) get two new sets of shorter lines, but I may just have to do that...

Anyone know how long the lines are on the 265 Express?

Why not T off on the pump? I wouldn't cut any hoses if I was you.

 

[bartoma]

Why not T off on the pump? I wouldn't cut any hoses if I was you.

By pump, I presume you mean the helm pump... Yes, that's what I did... The problem is that the 265 Express has minimal clearance behind the helm pump... The fittings it uses are 90 degree NPT to 3/8", which connect to the hoses... The only option for teeing off the helm pump is to introduce a 90 degree fitting, then add the tees... This is where the clustering comes into play - The tees interfere with each other, and the only hope of having a tight connection is to use ORB... With an NPT helm, you now need an adapter to get to #5 ORB-F... Basically, it's just a cluster, and in my case, the pieces I could daisy chain together ultimately didn't hold up...

So, I am going to relocate the pump under the helm and then either a) splice a 3/8" tee into the line using the Parker fittings suggested by Skunkboat, or b) make new hoses using Parker MSH-5 hose and fittings...

Skunkboat - how are your lines holding up? can we assume these fittings work as well as crimped?

 

[SkunkBoat]

By pump, I presume you mean the helm pump... Yes, that's what I did... The problem is that the 265 Express has minimal clearance behind the helm pump... The fittings it uses are 90 degree NPT to 3/8", which connect to the hoses... The only option for teeing off the helm pump is to introduce a 90 degree fitting, then add the tees... This is where the clustering comes into play - The tees interfere with each other, and the only hope of having a tight connection is to use ORB... With an NPT helm, you now need an adapter to get to #5 ORB-F... Basically, it's just a cluster, and in my case, the pieces I could daisy chain together ultimately didn't hold up...

So, I am going to relocate the pump under the helm and then either a) splice a 3/8" tee into the line using the Parker fittings suggested by Skunkboat, or b) make new hoses using Parker MSH-5 hose and fittings...

Skunkboat - how are your lines holding up? can we assume these fittings work as well as crimped?

no leaks, works great.

You have a 265. You have a huge space where I mounted mine. The lines are already right there in that space. Breaking in with Tees there is easy, you have room to work.
If you disconnect them from helm. Tie string to them, pull them a litlle out of the tackle box hole and do the work in your lap. Add fittings, tees,short hoses and AP pump, put it all back in the void there, run your wire, pull your hoses back and connect to helm.
You will need a long compensation hose though....maybe 14 FT.

 

[wrxhoon]

bartoma
I meant the AP pump, the electric pump. If you have more room there you can T there.

 

[bartoma]

bartoma
I meant the AP pump, the electric pump. If you have more room there you can T there.

OK - yea, no room where it is for anything...

 

[bartoma]

no leaks, works great.

You have a 265. You have a huge space where I mounted mine. The lines are already right there in that space. Breaking in with Tees there is easy, you have room to work.
If you disconnect them from helm. Tie string to them, pull them a litlle out of the tackle box hole and do the work in your lap. Add fittings, tees,short hoses and AP pump, put it all back in the void there, run your wire, pull your hoses back and connect to helm.
You will need a long compensation hose though....maybe 14 FT.

You used 3/8" ID vinyl hose for the compensation line? And terminated each end with compression fittings from Home Depot?

 

[SkunkBoat]

You used 3/8" ID vinyl hose for the compensation line? And terminated each end with compression fittings from Home Depot?

No, in my case I had extra 5/16 hose because I ordered pre-made two 14', two 8' and two 2' for my project before I learned about cutting hoses and using the Parker fittings.
Then I immediately found out I had to cut off the premade ends to get the hoses thru the motorwell bulkhead. Then I bought Parker fittings and completed the job with what I had
So I had two old original 5/16 tubings. I cut one and added a new fitting to use for the compensation.

But yes, according to Seastar you can use 3/8 for compensation line and use 3/8 compression fittings
Honestly, I like the Parker fittings on 5/16 better. I don't think they will ever come off without cutting the tubing and they have an o-ring and won't leak, and the nut spins freely when tightening.

If I were doing it again, I would buy one new pair of premade 5/16 in the longest stretch( based on position of pump it may be from helm to pump or pump to cylinder).
After cutting the existing lines, use the two old pieces to make 2' drops from the tees and a compensation line. Remember, there are already fittings on the uncut ends of those two.

premade hoses are sold in pairs and the length doesn't change the price much. 2' hoses cost almost as much as 14' hoses. So buy the longest run...

I got the hoses and Parker fittings on ebay

Also, you can buy a gallon of Mil spec 5606A hydraulic fluid for $50 on amazon X/C fluid
Drain your whole system and start fresh. You'll have plenty left over


Oh...be carefull of the Tees. The Tees that screw into a Helm have one end NPT and two ends MIP(compression thread)
If you break into lines, you need 3/8 compression threads all around. They have those at Home Depot

 

[bartoma]

Well, today was a real $*** Show... Started out by dismantling my leaky ORB/NPT Frankenstein and removing the pump...

One key objective was to locate the pump so that it could reach the NAC located in the helm - didn't want to relocate the NAC based on proximity to power and NMEA... Unfortunately, the stupid pump cable is only five feet or so long, so that forced me to locate the pump immediately adjacent to the fresh water pump (and the tube to the helm)... It's also a PITA to fish that stupid connector through that tiny tube...

Anyway, I realized I didn't have any way to fish the compensation line down from the helm, so I decided to replace the existing lines and use one to pull the compensation line (and a string) through the rigging tube... Was another PITA, but I eventually got new lines from the helm to the midpoint under the sink...

At this point, I am thinking I'll just cut the lines and put fittings on the aft sections coming from the motor well... Well, yet another PITA - the parker fitting wouldn't fit on the seastar lines - don't know if they were slightly swollen after 19 years, or if they were just slightly bigger (these were rated at 1500 lbs), but result was I had to also replace the aft sections of line...

So now, I am cutting the lines at the engines and using them to pull the new lines (connected by string and tape)... This was the supreme PITA - reaching into blind areas, trying to fish the new cable into the right place so that it can follow the old cable, afraid that at any moment, my string/tape connection will fail...

Long story short, I finally got the lines routed... Of course, I am covered in hydraulic fluid that had drizzled all over the deck, and my hands and arms are torn up from reaching blindly into holes and yanking on lines, string, and cables...

I have to buy some more line (auto pilot to tees) and connectors, but I am almost there... I never imagined that it would be this big of a pain, but in the end, I think its going to work...

The worst part was watching boat around me bringing in 40+" stripers during trophy season... Wish I could have gotten out...

 

[SkunkBoat]

At this point, I am thinking I'll just cut the lines and put fittings on the aft sections coming from the motor well... Well, yet another PITA - the parker fitting wouldn't fit on the seastar lines - don't know if they were slightly swollen after 19 years, or if they were just slightly bigger (these were rated at 1500 lbs), but result was I had to also replace the aft sections of line...

So now, I am cutting the lines at the engines and using them to pull the new lines (connected by string and tape)... This was the supreme PITA - reaching into blind areas, trying to fish the new cable into the right place so that it can follow the old cable, afraid that at any moment, my string/tape connection will fail...

Damn...you had Seastar Pro 1500psi lines...didn't think of that...do you have Seastar Pro cylinder?

 

[bartoma]

I don't know... Don't tell me i need new lines... (sigh)

 

[bartoma]

So, it appears I had 1500 PSI lines, but not the seastar pro helm/cylinder... I have the HH5741 helm (rated at 1000 PSI), and nothing indicates that the cylinder is PRO... In any case, I think I should be good to go with the Parker MSH-5 lines I installed, right?