Barrier coat, do you use them? Why?

[usmm1234]

Since Sea Ray has gone to vinylester resins, blisters have been virtually non-existant - which may have been sometime in the early 90's, I think. I work at a Sea Ray dealership and can tell you from my experience there, along with that from the Sea Ray forum -where there are plenty of guys much smarter than me - that it just doesn't happen anymore.

But as noted, it's not just about the compostion but the layup process. Up above, I mentioned I called Grady directly and they flat out told me not to worry about doing an epoxy coat. I was totally thinking of doing it based on the year of the boat. But based on what they said and the fact that there currently weren't any that I could find, I didn't bother. All has been well since and that was 5 or 6 years ago. I do think, though, that as time goes on that manufacturers will start to CYA and just recommend barrier coating as a course of business... even though it's not really necessary.

Back Cove... very nice boats (and Sabre). Right in my backyard up there - we have cottages in Friendship and Cushing - just a few minutes from Rockland.

Joe Hunter, head of Grady Engineering is a very good 30 year friend of mine. I already sent him an email Asking their official opinion. I’ll post it if he gives me permission. Once you get blisters. It takes over a year to get 70% of the moisture back out unless you do a complete peel. I blasted my Bertram to open the blisters. Then 14 months of heat lamps and air drying While I repowered it and did a lot of other work. Then 2 coats of Interprotect 1000 and 4 coats of Interprotect 2000 With no more then 4 hours between coats. It’s a complete nightmare. My wife and I were mentally and physically exhausted.

 

[usmm1234]

Certainly not something I want to get in an argument over, especially when something like this is opinion based. Maybe it's "the norm" in your area, but it definitely is not the norm everywhere. I'm in the business, as well, and I can tell you that from Maine to the Chesapeake NOT using it is the norm. I can also tell you from the many years I've been on a Sea Ray forum (a HUGE, worldwide forum), that it is also very much the rarity to have a barrier coat.

But again, not something I'd argue over. We each are entitled to our own opinions.

Do you work at Peters Marine?

 

[seasick]

Joe Hunter, head of Grady Engineering is a very good 30 year friend of mine. I already sent him an email Asking their official opinion. I’ll post it if he gives me permission. Once you get blisters. It takes over a year to get 70% of the moisture back out unless you do a complete peel. I blasted my Bertram to open the blisters. Then 14 months of heat lamps and air drying While I repowered it and did a lot of other work. Then 2 coats of Interprotect 1000 and 4 coats of Interprotect 2000 With no more then 4 hours between coats. It’s a complete nightmare. My wife and I were mentally and physically exhausted.

You have mentioned an important point that I have mentioned in several postst. There are specific recoat times based on ambient temperature that you have to follow with 2000 to get the proper coat and final thickness as well as have the proper adhesion for the next coat and the final bottom paint coat. It usually takes at least two days to apply all the coats with the appropriate wait times. A lot of shops just don't/cant spend that much time on the job without charging a pretty steep premium for the work. Most shops I know near me, also use pretty cheap bottom paint unless you specify or supply a specific brand. That said, I personally don't trust most yards to follow the barrier recoat times.
Many folks especially when purchasing their first boat don't want to spend an extra grand or more for complete bottom prep and painting.
if you price out the job, some folks will quote some ridiculous number like $10 per foot with your paint or $20 with their paint. You can't prep and put on 4 coats of barrier and 2 or 3 coats of decent anti-fouling for that money.
I agree that your suggestions are optimal for long term performance but so is not eating potato chips and can't stop!

 

[DennisG01]

Do you work at Peters Marine?

Yes, I do - I have to say, it's been a really nice place to work at and I really enjoy it there.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Since Sea Ray has gone to vinylester resins, blisters have been virtually non-existant - which may have been sometime in the early 90's, I think.

and there is point, I think... IMHO, it is polyester that requires an epoxy barrier coat.

 

[usmm1234]

Yes, I do - I have to say, it's been a really nice place to work at and I really enjoy it there.

Excellent Dealership! Very good reputation. I hope the marine industry can survive this virus. Here in SC, the waterways were absolutely full of boaters yesterday! It got cool again today. As of now. The only builders that have shut down so far are the Brunswick guys In our territory. That’s Whaler and a Searay. Hatteras too. I got an email from Grady saying they were going to keep building with a reduced staff. They have a ton of 33’s, 37’s and 45’s sold.
Do you ever go to the Dist. Shows in the fall? I run the Shurflo booth at Kellogg and MESCO shows.

 

[DennisG01]

and there is point, I think... IMHO, it is polyester that requires an epoxy barrier coat.

I agree - in general, you are correct. If you haven't, take a look at that link I provided above. It talks about (and it's a Grady rep) how poly CAN be just fine - but it depends on how it's done. That, provided with what Grady (the manufacturer, not a dealer) told me, along with what I had researched/learned a few years ago, is why I was saying what I was.

 

[DennisG01]

Excellent Dealership! Very good reputation. I hope the marine industry can survive this virus. Here in SC, the waterways were absolutely full of boaters yesterday! It got cool again today. As of now. The only builders that have shut down so far are the Brunswick guys In our territory. That’s Whaler and a Searay. Hatteras too. I got an email from Grady saying they were going to keep building with a reduced staff. They have a ton of 33’s, 37’s and 45’s sold.
Do you ever go to the Dist. Shows in the fall? I run the Shurflo booth at Kellogg and MESCO shows.

I used to go the MESCO shows a while back. We do have Kellogg, but MESCO has been our main supplier for years. Haven't gone to a show in quite a while, though. I do miss the "old" shows, though... the ones where they used to feed us!

Yeah, it's defnitely a weird time for boating. We actually just came off our best Philly boat show in MANY years! And although we're closed up right now due to the PA Gov's mandate, we're still getting lot's of inquiries for sales, although I'm not sure how we're going to work that out. But with us closed, we can't help customers get their boats ready for Spring - where we usually have quite a lot of customers at this time needing help with repairs/maintenance.

There are some good things to Brunswick, but I liked it better when Sea Ray was under their own management...

 

[usmm1234]

You have mentioned an important point that I have mentioned in several postst. There are specific recoat times based on ambient temperature that you have to follow with 2000 to get the proper coat and final thickness as well as have the proper adhesion for the next coat and the final bottom paint coat. It usually takes at least two days to apply all the coats with the appropriate wait times. A lot of shops just don't/cant spend that much time on the job without charging a pretty steep premium for the work. Most shops I know near me, also use pretty cheap bottom paint unless you specify or supply a specific brand. That said, I personally don't trust most yards to follow the barrier recoat times.
Many folks especially when purchasing their first boat don't want to spend an extra grand or more for complete bottom prep and painting.
if you price out the job, some folks will quote some ridiculous number like $10 per foot with your paint or $20 with their paint. You can't prep and put on 4 coats of barrier and 2 or 3 coats of decent anti-fouling for that money.
I agree that your suggestions are optimal for long term performance but so is not eating potato chips and can't stop!

After soda blasting my hull. I had the yard follow the Pettit Reps instructions exactly. He suggested just 2 coats of the Pettit high build epoxy primer. Years ago. I did the Interlux system on my Bertram because they gave it to me no charge. I would burn the boat before doing that again. I’m 64 now, so I didn’t even do the 2 coats this time! I let the yard do it. When I dried my Bertram out for over a year. The waterline moved by 1 1/2 inches! That’s how much absorption these boats can pick up. We keep our boats in the water year round down here. I cut my teeth at a big yard in Cape May NJ. A lot of boats there were only in the water 6 or 7 months of the year. Big difference As far as blisters.
my entire bill for soda Blast, prime and paint with me providing paint was $3000 on a 330 Express.

 

[usmm1234]

I used to go the MESCO shows a while back. We do have Kellogg, but MESCO has been our main supplier for years. Haven't gone to a show in quite a while, though. I do miss the "old" shows, though... the ones where they used to feed us!

Yeah, it's defnitely a weird time for boating. We actually just came off our best Philly boat show in MANY years! And although we're closed up right now due to the PA Gov's mandate, we're still getting lot's of inquiries for sales, although I'm not sure how we're going to work that out. But with us closed, we can't help customers get their boats ready for Spring - where we usually have quite a lot of customers at this time needing help with repairs/maintenance.

There are some good things to Brunswick, but I liked it better when Sea Ray was under their own management...

Unfortunately, Searay and Whaler have run off all their old salts (engineers) in favor of people from Automotive backgrounds. The other builders in FL and TN have hired every one of them.
They are still building good boats though. Mercury Outboards is on a roll! The big motors are hot. Yamaha screwed up with the 350’s. Way to many issues. Then they come out with the 425 and the dry weight is 1000lbs! They are doing good so far.
MESCO moved the show to Harrah’s in AC. They feed the heck out of you! Come down this Nov. I’ll hook you up with a pump or two for your personal boat.

 

[usmm1234]

Well, The Back Cove Yacht group does not provide bottom coating at the factory. They calculate that to be a regional thing, best handled by the Dealer. My buddy did say that he thought their dealers were applying a barrier product pretty much all the time. He saw my email on his phone. I’ll post Grady’s response when I get that.

 

[SkunkBoat]

I agree - in general, you are correct. If you haven't, take a look at that link I provided above. It talks about (and it's a Grady rep) how poly CAN be just fine - but it depends on how it's done. That, provided with what Grady (the manufacturer, not a dealer) told me, along with what I had researched/learned a few years ago, is why I was saying what I was.

all that said, assuming anti-fouling was going on and the boat was going to be slipped for 6 months or more...

if I was spending money soda blasting an old hull it would get 2 part epoxy before the anti-fouling went on.
If I plopped down 6 figure$ on a new boat, it would get 2 part epoxy before the anti-fouling went on.

My 265 has a very nice barrier coat under the anti-fouling. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[usmm1234]

all that said, assuming anti-fouling was going on and the boat was going to be slipped for 6 months or more...

if I was spending money soda blasting an old hull it would get 2 part epoxy before the anti-fouling went on.
If I plopped down 6 figure$ on a new boat, it would get 2 part epoxy before the anti-fouling went on.

My 265 has a very nice barrier coat under the anti-fouling. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Roger that Capt

 

[DennisG01]

all that said, assuming anti-fouling was going on and the boat was going to be slipped for 6 months or more...

if I was spending money soda blasting an old hull it would get 2 part epoxy before the anti-fouling went on.
If I plopped down 6 figure$ on a new boat, it would get 2 part epoxy before the anti-fouling went on.

My 265 has a very nice barrier coat under the anti-fouling. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Nothing wrong with having the warm fuzzies!

 

[DennisG01]

Unfortunately, Searay and Whaler have run off all their old salts (engineers) in favor of people from Automotive backgrounds. The other builders in FL and TN have hired every one of them.
They are still building good boats though. Mercury Outboards is on a roll! The big motors are hot. Yamaha screwed up with the 350’s. Way to many issues. Then they come out with the 425 and the dry weight is 1000lbs! They are doing good so far.
MESCO moved the show to Harrah’s in AC. They feed the heck out of you! Come down this Nov. I’ll hook you up with a pump or two for your personal boat.

Hmmm... they started having a food spread, again? And some swag? That might just be the ticket - thanks! Have the shows, themselves gotten better? That was the primary reason we stopped going - the vendor displays seemed to have been dwindling and it just wasn't informative as it used to be.

I haven't had any experience with that 425HP, but I do remember my dropping open when I first saw the weight!

 

[usmm1234]

Hmmm... they started having a food spread, again? And some swag? That might just be the ticket - thanks! Have the shows, themselves gotten better? That was the primary reason we stopped going - the vendor displays seemed to have been dwindling and it just wasn't informative as it used to be.

I haven't had any experience with that 425HP, but I do remember my dropping open when I first saw the weight!

The shows are huge now. Very good booths. Food and drinks are very well done,. The casinos do a great job. Lots of door prizes. I think your rooms are free too. I promise you a pump if you come.

 

[Fishtales]

We're going to have to go to the confessional if this keeps up!

 

[Recoil Rob]

OP here, I read ALL this with great interest and I guess it's still going to be up to me to decide.

As stated, although this is a 2004 boat, it has never been bottom painted, It was trailered all it's life, it's a clean hull. It has some chips and scratches in the gel coat that I need to address, nothing bigger than 50 cent piece.

After speaking with Pettit's tech guys it doesn't seem that hard to do, (especially these days when my work is shut down).

It seems some scrubbing with Bio Blue 92 hull cleaner, light sanding with 80 grit and wipe down.

2 coats of Pettit Protect Epoxy and 2 coats of Hyrdocoat. The only timing issue is the first Hydrocoat must be put on while the barrier is still tacky, 7-10 hours.

OTOH, I read a lot about blisters on older boats and on other boats, not so much any Grady's made within the last 20 years.
I found this from a Soundings interview...

"Grady-White uses temperature-controlled blended polyester resin that is measured and metered to guarantee the correct resin-to-glass ratio. “With the combination of our gelcoat and our process controls, we don’t see a great benefit to using vinylester resins,” says Grady-White compliance manager Jim Hardin, adding that room-temperature curing makes the difference even less appreciable.

“If you do your gelcoat right and your gelcoat is compatible with your resins, you won’t have blistering problems,” says Hardin. Most builders that say they use vinylester resins are using a blend that is mostly polyester anyway, he says."

Guess I'll sleep on it....


thanks,

Rob

 

[DennisG01]

I found this from a Soundings interview...

"Grady-White uses temperature-controlled blended polyester resin that is measured and metered to guarantee the correct resin-to-glass ratio. “With the combination of our gelcoat and our process controls, we don’t see a great benefit to using vinylester resins,” says Grady-White compliance manager Jim Hardin, adding that room-temperature curing makes the difference even less appreciable.

“If you do your gelcoat right and your gelcoat is compatible with your resins, you won’t have blistering problems,” says Hardin. Most builders that say they use vinylester resins are using a blend that is mostly polyester anyway, he says."

Guess I'll sleep on it....


thanks,

Rob

Good find on that article. Where did you find that... in the link I provided for you way back in post #4 of this thread?

 

[usmm1234]

I didn’t hear back from Grady Engineering. They might be closed.