Battery issues...

[amr72]

I just had all three of my batteries fail while offshore and I am looking to replace them. Does anybody know if the charger that Grady installed back in 1993 will work with the new AGM batteries?

Also I am trying to figure out my electrical system overall. I have two 1 both 2 switches and three batts. Anybody else have the same? How do you use the switches: "1" on the way out and "2" on the way back? Or "both" all the time?

Any info would be appreciated.

Anthony

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

I always have the switches facing away from each other, never had a problem this way. As far as the charger and AGM batteries, i was told that is not a good idea, it would not fully charge the battery.

 

[Hookup1]

Battery switches

You most likley have a switch on each engine and the "house" battery directly hooked up.

Look for the large cables from the engines to the switch and negative terminal on the battery. Then turn one switch on and confirm the engine starts.

You should set the switches one to "1" and the other to "2" for normal operation. The other positions are for backup should one of the starting batteries fail. You can re-configure yours batteries by flipping a switch. Only use the "both" position in an emergency to start if you can't get things started in the other positions.

Put a voltmeter on each battery. With the charger off you should get 12.6 volts on each of the batteries. Charger on and with batteries fully charged you should see 13.4 volts.

The stock Dytek charger is specific to lead-acid batteries. I just installed a ProMarine ProSport 20+ on my 268 Islander. They make a 30 amp model too. They support three types of batteries but they must all be the same type. I'm still using lead-acid types.

 

[BobP]

How did you manage to knock off all three batteries ?

 

[catch22]

How did you manage to knock off all three batteries ?

Exactly what I was thinking. :?:

The only time I set a switch to "both" is when I want to quickly charge both batteries at the same time.

You should normally set it to 1 or 2. Setting it on "both" makes the 2 batteries into 1 battery, and if one of them is weak or going bad, it will only pull the good battery down. You might get away with it, if you try to start the motor immedietly after you switch it, but don't leave it on "both" if one of the batteries is suspect.

If both batteries are good, setting it on "both" does increse the current capacity, but there should be no need for that because 1 good battery should be capable of starting your motor, if not, you've get a problem elsewhere, (poor connection, bad solonoid or starter, etc).

 

[BobP]

The '93 Grady catalog doesn't show a battery charger as a factory option on the Sailfish.

 

[jehines3]

I just went through all this last season on my 1990.
Rid yourself of the problematic battery switch set-up and go to a BEP 717-100A set-up. Much nicer and easier than using what was there, and completely idiot proof. My charger was from 2001, so I kept it, but I'd replace an old charger while I'm in there. Not sure I would make the jump to AGM, but make more sensible investments to make the overall system better, more reliable, and much more user friendly. Getting ditched off shore has nothing to do with the charger or battery technology, so I'd go after the item which seems to have gotten you in trouble, which is the battery switch set-up. Just one electrical dude's opinion...jh

 

[BobP]

Maybe be was using too much load for too long, didn't realize it, and took all three down to nothing, or had partially charged batts when going out.

Presuming he didn't have a dedicated start battery that can't be switched to aux load. If so, it wouldn't be an original design.

Let's see what he was doing.

 

[jehines3]

I can't see how you drop all three batteries in an offshore situation without switching being part, if not all to blame. If it has three battery switches, it is still a very unfriendly set-up and requires paralleling to charge the house during the run out and a switch to isolated mode when switching to drifting once on the fish. Even if hes using a 3-2 isolator he's not getting the full charge benefit from the motors on the run out. There is no good reason to keep an isolator with the newer stuff out today.

AMR72 as a side note see of your GPS will do battery voltage alarming and turn that feature on if it has it. I set mine to 11.7V, just to be sure my ACR's are closing and charging is keeping up with my house loads...It only goes off after a full night on the hook when you flush my electric head and that is only due to motor inrush. jh

 

[jehines3]

Bob the 717-100A set-up will not let you use the motor starts for house loads. This leaves your fully redundant 100 mile out and only way home motors ready to go at a moments notice....jh

 

[BobP]

I have no argument with idiot proof systems.

A conventional system can be used properly too - in a manner to produce same results.

I don't like adding additional components to any system. Less components = less components to go haywire and fail = less compoinens to take care of.

Simplist systems are always more reliable irrespective of manufacturers claims, but do require proper use by operator (like me).

Notwithstanding, would like to know how member knocked down all three batts at same time.

 

[Hookup1]

Battery problem

I agree with the keep it simple approach. Before you start changing anything out you need to figure out what is happening or did happen. Did the charger do its job? Are any of the batteries bad? Engine charging properly? Switch mismanagement? Excessive load? Some combination of the above?

First you need to remove the load (all battery switches OFF) and allow batteries to charge overnight. With the charger off you should have 12.6 volts on each of the batteries. Put a load on each of them for a few minuites and re-check the voltages. It should be 12.5 or 12.6 range. A battery at 12.0 volts is 75% discharged! If you see them dropping to fast you need to replace the battery.

NOTE:
Standard "flooded" lead acid batteries state of charge (SOC) is as follows:
12.6=100%, 12.4=75%, 12.2=50%, 12.0=25%, 11.7=0%.
http://www.exide.com/faq/faq_marine.html#stateofcharge

Next, start the engines one at a time. Measure the battery voltage with the engine running in neutral - bring the RPM's up a bit - you should have 13+ volts if the engines are charging the battery.

Lastly - look at the load on the house battery. What were you running on the way out? Did I understand you correctly that you killed all 3 batteries? Starting batteries don't like being severely discharged. They can be damaged and will not provide the proper voltage or capacity.

Good luck!

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

IF you got yami motors
you could only use flooded cells

it is in all rigging guides!

 

[amr72]

Guys thanks for all the advice...now I am more confused than ever. Here is the whole story...I have two switches both set to "both". Obviously mistake number 1. My shore power cord pulled out of the socket last week during a storm and I believe a switch inadvertantly left on at the helm (fuel guage switch) killed all three batts over a two week period. I reattched the the shore power cord and let the batts charge for a week. When I got to the slip I disconnected the cord and started the motors and all seemed fine. My GPS showed 13 volts so I felt OK. I headed offshore and trolled for 3 hours...no problems. I turned the motors off for about 2 hours with the GPS and my VHF radio on while we were drifting (and catching tuna by the way) when I went to start the motors they would not turn over. My guess is the batts were damaged during the discharge and recharge and need to be replaced. I don't know if I am going to replace the charger or not right now as I already have to replace 3 batts. But from what I am hearing I should probably have one switch on "1" and the other on "2". I hope this helps clear things up...

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

matters what batts you have
you should have 2 starting and 1 house or 2 houses
or 1 start 1 house, u need to find that out ASAP

check the water level in the batts, do a low chatge of 10amps or less for 48 hrs, then let them cool down for at least 1 hr hen load tests

 

[gw204]

You got Optis, right? If so, make sure the batteries are up to snuff regardless of age. Those motors require something like 1000 MCA to crank properly I believe.

 

[amr72]

...

I have 2 starting and one house. I am definitely changing all three batts, the question is how to handle the two batt switches so this can't happen again and what type of batts to get being that I have the original charger installed already...

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

Re: ...

I have 2 starting and one house. I am definitely changing all three batts, the question is how to handle the two batt switches so this can't happen again and what type of batts to get being that I have the original charger installed already...

buy a battery combiner and it will never happen agian

 

[jehines3]

Three batteries and two battery switches is a bad set-up. At a minimum add a third battery switch (on-off) dedicated to the house load and two ACR's. Your batteries are likely toast if they were fully discharged. If you use the BEP system I suggest you would only have one bad battery in the group, not three from the begining, and could have gotten home without that bad battery. There is no way to drain the starts from the house loads with this set-up, period. Your starts should never be manually switched in to serve a house load. I don't care if I got bait in the well, I'm not risking a start battery deplete.

Almost every battery dead story leads right back to switching. The original set-up is confusing and not good enough for useability and relaibaility. Go to the 717-100A set-up and you will wonder why you accepted the present set-up for so long. jh

 

[jehines3]

Re: ...

I have 2 starting and one house. I am definitely changing all three batts, the question is how to handle the two batt switches so this can't happen again and what type of batts to get being that I have the original charger installed already...

Add a third On-Off switch for the house inconjunction with two ACR's.

Use lead acid, they are cheap, very reliable, and to save money to implement the above suggestion.

Combiners are not good as you lose 0.5-0.7 volts across them, and your 14.7 charging output will only be 14.0 at the battery post. ACR's have no voltage drop or biasing voltage across the charging post.