Bilge Pump Replacement

[Ridge Runner]

I need to replace the stern bilge pump and switch in my 04 282 Sailfish. I know how to wire it up. The problem is, I cannot physically reach the pump and switch! What is the trick?

 

[DennisG01]

You must be able to reach that seacock handle? If you can reach that, it seems you could reach the pump? Even if it's just with one hand and you end up doing it by feel. Hard to say without better pics, though.

 

[mleads310]

Ok I know it's a pain and you'll have to go in head first, but you can reach it. You're going to have to learn how to work in almost an handstand kind of position. The access for the rear bilge is a pain! But it can be done. Also side note. That original seacock looks in really bad shape, rusted thru almost, I would be very concerned about that.

 

[DennisG01]

Oh... wanted to add, as I looked at the pictures closer... it appears that the handles of the seacocks haven't been touched in some time. That is a mistake. You should be "exercising" the seacock handles once a month to keep them working. If a hose bursts, and you can't close the seacock... what is your plan to keep the boat from sinking?

 

[glacierbaze]

If you can reach the bottom, even with one hand, there should be a tab on each side of the blue basket to press and release the pump. I don't think Attwood makes that pump any longer, but if you can find one, or if the new style 1700 has the same base, you could wire it up, and push it down into the existing basket.
I am surprised that your SF doesn't have the extension rods attached to the seacock handles, as most Gradys do, but I am not sure your handles have the square hole in the end of the handle.
if you get the old stuff out, you might consider something like this, going back in with the new.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Update: Here is a photo from above, and another showing the access under the rear bench seat for those not familiar with the 282 SailFish. I cannot even touch the pump or switch. I am a big dude, 6'1" so I have some reach, but I am too big to get my shoulders down in the bilge access to reach farther. My son is away at college, he normally gets into the smaller places for me, so I need to figure this one out. I am replacing that pump set up with a Rule Gold 2000 and a WaterWitch switch. The pump and switch still work fine, I am replacing as a precaution due to age. As far as I know, probably original (2004). If I could get ahold of it somehow and twist it off, I think I could get it from there with long screwdrivers, extensions, etc. then putting the new Rule on it's basket will be a challenge again. This morning I was out scrounging around in the garage looking to see if I could rig up some sort of spanner or something to remove & replace the pumps...

Pay no attention to the wiring, those photos are from 2014 when I bought the boat. They have since been cleaned up, and will once again be re-wired for this project. That broken Rule was the first thing I ever fixed on this boat. No idea what caused it, but it looked bad! Fixed that before ever splashing.

As for the seacocks, they are on my list for replacement. All of them. I do not have those extension rods, but plan to fab some up. I use a modified gaff to open and close them.

 

[mleads310]

Trust me I feel your pain with reaching in there. I'm only 5'9" but not on the big side and I find myself chest deep in order to reach down in there.

Side note anyone know where to source that tray that sits in the hatch under the aft bench seat? And where to source those valve extension handles? I could definitely use one those.

 

[glacierbaze]

THMarine, on the extension handles.

This is your pump. Should be a single release tab, down behind the "S" on Sure Bail. Push it down with a long screw driver, and turn counter clockwise to remove. May have to cut or remove the hose, to turn it.

https://media1.svb-media.de/media/snr/605/pdf/manual_en_2002-07-08.pdf

 

[DennisG01]

Believe me, I know what you mean about tight spaces. I work in the marine industry. Looking at your pics... it appears that if you pop the gas spring off it will allow the hatch to opern further, giving you some more room. Then, I "think" you can lay across the opening (feet towards the stbd side of the boat) and get your left shoulder down into the hole enough for your left hand to do the work. Probably all done blind, but you might be able to get your head in enough to see - hard to say without actually being there.

That said... if it was me, I wouldn't be rushing to replace it. There's no rhyme or reason, most times, why a pump stops working and who's to say that a new one won't crap out on you, either.

Concerning the seacocks... they are bronze so they don't rust. If they are "bad" after just 18 years, that's not the norm. They DO get a green "verdigris" on them - but that is bronze's way of protecting itself. It's actually a good thing.

 

[Fishtales]

It's def 10lbs in a 8lb bag down there. That being said, usually they twist off the pump base, the pump base is mounted to a core substance in the glass with screws. Ensure power off, cut power lines as close as possible to the pump, disconnect water line. Once out, you can see what you are dealing with (clean area, fill any mounting holes etc). Might be good to wire before installing and neatly tie excess and then mount. It is a bit of a PIA, but very doable if you stay calm and organized.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Believe me, I know what you mean about tight spaces. I work in the marine industry. Looking at your pics... it appears that if you pop the gas spring off it will allow the hatch to opern further, giving you some more room. Then, I "think" you can lay across the opening (feet towards the stbd side of the boat) and get your left shoulder down into the hole enough for your left hand to do the work. Probably all done blind, but you might be able to get your head in enough to see - hard to say without actually being there.

That said... if it was me, I wouldn't be rushing to replace it. There's no rhyme or reason, most times, why a pump stops working and who's to say that a new one won't crap out on you, either.

Concerning the seacocks... they are bronze so they don't rust. If they are "bad" after just 18 years, that's not the norm. They DO get a green "verdigris" on them - but that is bronze's way of protecting itself. It's actually a good thing.

Well, I got the old one out. With some sort of contortions, I could barely touch the top of the pump. Getting the hose off was the easy part, I had a hose taker offer tool for that. Using a long handled pair of pliers gripping a small screwdriver, a mIrror and flashlight, I couldn't get what I thought was the tab to release, so got a bigger tool... I got an oil filter wrench, clamped it to some vice grips, and cranked on it until it popped loose. Turns out the locking tab is the raised part, looks like a wire guide. Then I rummaged up a long screwdriver and managed to get the basket screws out. Compared the pattern to the new pump, and they match so reinstallation will be easier. The screws for the float switch did NOT want to budge. 30 minutes for the front one and it finally came out. The back one I could only reach with fingertips on the screwdriver. Got it about 1/2 way out and it snapped off. I won't be using those holes for the new switch, so In will just seal them. Ran out of daylight, so moved to the garage to rig up the new Rule Gold 2000 Pumps with brackets to hold the switches. Now all I need is another weather window to install it, wire it (adding cycle gauges too), and tackle the front one.
The old pump and switch look great for 18 years old. The pump works fine, so will rig it up with a hose and 20' leads, and keep it on board for a back-up to the back-up...

 

[Ridge Runner]

Oh, a question: The old pump was wired directly to the house battery with an inline fuse. Should I replicate that with new wire, or wire it to the back (hot side) of the battery switches?

 

[DennisG01]

Oh, a question: The old pump was wired directly to the house battery with an inline fuse. Should I replicate that with new wire, or wire it to the back (hot side) of the battery switches?

Either way will work. It just needs constant power (still use a fuse).

 

[Ridge Runner]

Either way will work. It just needs constant power (still use a fuse).

I will still use a fuse... I have been known to pull it to clean the bilge. We put about 50 gallons of water in the bilge from the fresh water tank when we are near the marina, and dump some bilge cleaner in and let it all slosh around. Then pop the fuse back in when in the no-wake zone and pump it all out. Was going to wire in a 3 way switch, but decided not to pull more wires...

 

[DennisG01]

Don't take offense - none intended - but, enviro-friendly cleaner?

You're putting two pumps back in to replace one? I assume one will be a high water pump? You mentioned a 3-way switch... that WOULD be a good idea for the main pump, but not needed for the emergency pump. Mount the switch for the e-pump about four inches higher than the main switch.

 

[Ky Grady]

I'm seeing head first, both arms above your head, chest/belly accross the edge of opening. Put padding like a folded towel across the edge. Definitely plan on replacing those seacocks and adding a handle to be able to exercise them from above. Even on my 228, I have to go in head first to reach the bottom of my bilge. BTW,, the Rule 2000 Gold is a great pump. Replaced my original Attwood 1250 and Sure Bail with the new Rule and a new Sure Bail.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Don't take offense - none intended - but, enviro-friendly cleaner?

You're putting two pumps back in to replace one? I assume one will be a high water pump? You mentioned a 3-way switch... that WOULD be a good idea for the main pump, but not needed for the emergency pump. Mount the switch for the e-pump about four inches higher than the main switch.

Yes, enviro friendly...
I have an emergency pump and switch mounted 5" higher in the rear bilge with an alarm at the helm. 5 years old, only runs when testing the switch, so not replacing that one. The second one goes up front under the V-Berth. That one actually trips the breaker after 5 seconds, and that is what started the project. When done, I will have a 2000 gph and a 2000 gph high water pump in the rear bilge, 2000 gph up front, and there is always the 500 gph shower pump as well... Boat is normally on a dry rack, but when we travel it stays in the water for a week or more at a time.

 

[DennisG01]

Yes, enviro friendly...
I have an emergency pump and switch mounted 5" higher in the rear bilge with an alarm at the helm. 5 years old, only runs when testing the switch, so not replacing that one. The second one goes up front under the V-Berth. That one actually trips the breaker after 5 seconds, and that is what started the project. When done, I will have a 2000 gph and a 2000 gph high water pump in the rear bilge, 2000 gph up front, and there is always the 500 gph shower pump as well... Boat is normally on a dry rack, but when we travel it stays in the water for a week or more at a time.

Gotcha - good plan!

 

[Ridge Runner]

I'm seeing head first, both arms above your head, chest/belly accross the edge of opening. Put padding like a folded towel across the edge. Definitely plan on replacing those seacocks and adding a handle to be able to exercise them from above. Even on my 228, I have to go in head first to reach the bottom of my bilge. BTW,, the Rule 2000 Gold is a great pump. Replaced my original Attwood 1250 and Sure Bail with the new Rule and a new Sure Bail.

View attachment 24722View attachment 24723

Cleanest bilge around!

 

[Ky Grady]

Cleanest bilge around!

So I've been told.