engine lift

[dogdoc]

port engine lifters do not function on my 250 yamaha, starboard works fine. I hear a faint click when the switch is pressed at the helm but nothing happens at the engine. been since sept since they were last used and worked fine then. not sure how to begin trouble shooting this one

 

[DennisG01]

Any difference when doing it right at the engine? How about with the engine running? Do your battery switches allow you run the port engine off the stbd battery? It's pretty rare for a trim motor to go bad - not that it never happens, of course, but the more common issue is battery voltage... whether it's a depleted battery or loose/corroded connections or even corrosion inside/under the vinyl sheathing. Those are all good things to check.

 

[seasick]

I guess the question to ask is if the motor starts. If so, the main connections are probably good. The most likely culprit is a relay or perhaps a bad connection.
If you follow the wires from the tilt pump up into the lower cowl you will see where they connect to the tilt relay . You may need to remove a protective plastic cover to get to the connections.
To follow the wire you may need to tug and wiggle it to see which one it is on the motor wiring.
That cable probably has two wires and may be may have the round connectors marked with a green and a blue color. The screw terminal will also be marked green and blue. Don't hole me to the colors, I don't see them very well.

If the wires and terminals are not market, mark the with tape for putting them back later.
Remove the terminal nuts and connect the two wires to battery and ground. One orientation to positive and ground is tilt up and if you reverse the wires the motor runs the other way. If the pump works when directly connected to good battery, the relay may be bad. Try cleaning all connections first. Good luck

 

[DennisG01]

That cable probably has two wires and may be may have the round connectors marked with a green and a blue color. The screw terminal will also be marked green and blue. Don't hole me to the colors, I don't see them very well.

Yup - you are correct in your colors. Green is down, blue is up. Think... green for grass/ground, blue for sky.

 

[seasick]

Now using your analogy I will probably think the one color is BROWN for what my lawn looks like.,

 

[DennisG01]

Now using your analogy I will probably think the one color is BROWN for what my lawn looks like.,

You and me both, brother!

 

[dogdoc]

everything else works fine. no problems with either engine other than lifting port. i did try when cruising at high speed and nothing. to much going on yesterday to lift the cowl will try today

 

[seasick]

The wires go to the relay as mentioned. You can try tapping it to see if that makes a difference. I suspect it wont. After that with the battery switch OFF, undo , clean and reconnect the wires to the relay including the battery side supply wires. If you are handy with a voltmeter, one test to do is to measure the voltage at the battery side of the relay. The battery switch should be on but the motors does not need to be running. Let's say that you see 11.5 volts or more. Now hit the tilt button and when you hear the click, see what the voltage is. If it drops a lot, more that a few volts, you have bad connection somewhere. If it only drop a littte, redo the testing but this time wit the voltmeter at the pump side of the relay. Measue the resting voltage ( will be zero or so) and then hit the tilt switch. If the voltage drops a lot (and the battery side didn't) the relay is probably bad. If it doesn't drop a lot, you have a wiring or bad pump probability. There are no splices or connectors between the relay and the pump so the only wiring issue would be a fractured cable or a corroded terminal.

 

[DennisG01]

And... just to add some more info to back up with Seasick is talking about in regards to the relay... just because you hear a relay "click", doesn't mean it is good. A relay can make an audible click, yet the contact points on the inside can be deteriorated enough so that they don't make ENOUGH contact to pass the required amperage to drive the motor. Jump the relay to test if it is bad or good.

 

[Fishtales]

I had some issues with the thumb switch (lifts both). I used some WD a few times and then it came back. I ended up changing all three last year. Never an issue with the switch on the motor but don't use them much.

 

[dogdoc]

exposed both relays working motor and non working motor relay is 3 in square cube and has palpable click when actuated. total of 8 10ga wires in each all in pairs of 2 with 2 smaller fused wires which are the actuating wires i assume. 4 wires red with white stripe seem to come from battery pos and go to plastic potted unit bolted to the motor and very inaccessible. they enter and exit on one side of the relay and are connected with an 80amp fuse. the other side of the relay has solid red pairs supply seems to be aux pos battery wire and the exiting pair goes to the same black box of red/white wire and is also connected with a 80 amp fuse. voltage on red white pairs is 12.8 at all 4 locations (both relays) and there is no voltage drop when actuating lift switch for either motor. on bad motor there is only fluctuating milivolt reading on red wires and no voltage increase or drop when actuating relay with switch. on working engine the voltage on the red wires is around 9 volts with no increase or decrease when switch actuated.
frankly i am lost!

 

[seasick]

The relay has seven connections: two heavy gauge are the power feds, two heavy gauge are the tilt pump wires (colored terminals, and three smaller wires connect with a 3 pin connector. Those are the control signals.
The control signals get juice through a 30A fuse and the relay power feed comes directly from the battery feed, no fuse. That terminal does feed an 80A fuse that powers other motor systems.

The pump leads are sky blue and light green. The power feed is Red ant that should be powered when ever the battery switch is on.
Since the motor starts, the 80A fuse is OK,
If you have a test light that draws a little current, connect it to the light green and the sky blue terminals and see if it lights up when you hit the tilt switch. If you have juice ans it doesn't drop when you hit the tilt switch you may have a bad pump or possibly a broken wire. You may need to pull cable pair for the pump to check it all. One trick I learned is to tie a piecs of cord to the terminal ends so that when you pull out the cable from underneath, the cord will follow the path and make it easier later to reinstall the cable.
You will also have to cut a few cable ties'
I found the wiring diagram for tilt. I will try to scan it and post it.

 

[seasick]

Here is the diagram. You may need to stand on your head to red it

 

[DennisG01]

You mentioned "voltage drop"... are you doing an ACTUAL voltage drop test or are you just comparing the voltage on either side of the relay? Note what I said above about amps. A volt drop test is different than just comparing. Did you try jumping the relay?

 

[seasick]

My suggestion was to measure the standing voltage at the input and at the output(pump leads) and then repeat the two measurements while activating the relay. There shouldn't be a large difference between out voltage and in voltage.

 

[DennisG01]

My suggestion was to measure the standing voltage at the input and at the output(pump leads) and then repeat the two measurements while activating the relay. There shouldn't be a large difference between out voltage and in voltage.

Yup, Yup. Good test to do, as well (I wasn't suggesting to NOT do that... just offering a different type of test). It can check to see if the motor is crapping out/binding out. I'm wondering (outloud), though, if it really tests for a failing relay. I've never done it for that reason, which is why I'm wondering. Meaning, all it takes is for one, tiny spot to make a connection inside the relay to pass the proper voltage. However, that one spot would NOT pass enough amperage... which is where the "voltage drop" comes in with the probes on either side of the relay, looking for no more than about .1-ish volts when the circuit is activated. But jumping the relay is a quick and easy way to test the relay, too.

 

[seasick]

One thing that may lead me to think it is not the relay is that usually when the internal contacts go south, one of the tilt motions fails first. e.g. tilts up but not down or visa versa. As mentioned, tilt pumps don't fail often but It could be bad . I hope not

 

[DennisG01]

One thing that may lead me to think it is not the relay is that usually when the internal contacts go south, one of the tilt motions fails first. e.g. tilts up but not down or visa versa. As mentioned, tilt pumps don't fail often but It could be bad . I hope not

Good point - that's a reasonable theory.

Either way, it should pretty easy and quick to narrow down where the issues is with jumping. Start on the motor side of things and just work backwards - a couple minutes is usually all it takes.

 

[seasick]

I was thinking and have an idea. If you have one of those portable jump starts batteries, you could attach it to the terminals that go to the trim pump. The pump should run but make sure the boats battery switches are off. This test would be easy and fast to at lease eliminate a bad pump

 

[Fishtales]

its either no voltage, a bad motor (most likely) or hydraulics. the latter will usually come with leaking and the motor should run. you have some debug to do, but it sure sounds like the motor if the switches are good.