Got my first real issue with my Suzuki DT225

[Lt.Mike]

I've had my Grady sitting for the last moth waiting for the fall striper run to turn on.
Well it has the fishing is hot so I went out to fire it over making sure the batteries and everything else is good to go... well its not.
The Suzuki '03 DT225 would not start. It ran perfect when last out (and all summer for that matter). I then flushed & parked it.
So I went to the basics. Batteries are charged, cables clean. Pulled the cover, engaged the starter & the flywheel rotates about 2" and stops cold with a clunk. Using a wrench on the stator nut to rotate it back then forward by hand and it seems to stop against something. like there is a wrench inside the case. Something is blocking the rotation. The lower unit shifts in and out of gear freely with the prop engaging and spinning freely in neutral. Removing the plugs to remove compression had no effect. All plugs were uniform in color and wear.
This problem was discovered after sitting for one month after last use when the engine ran flawlessly. No obvious reason or warning signs before hand and I am always paying attention to how it sounds and runs. There are 420 hours on the motor.
I am at a loss as to what may be the issue. Any ideas?
Not a rich guy and I was hoping to get a couple of issue free seasons. Not a happy guy.

 

[gw204]

Uh oh. That's not good.

I would drop the lower unit completely and then see if she spins. If not, pull the heads and have a look inside the cylinders. If so, manually shift the lower into gear and see if you can spin the prop. Do you see any hairline cracks in the lower unit near the prop?

 

[seasick]

Before pulling a lot of stuff, remove the plugs and see if the motor will rotate(by hand). You could have a hydraulic lock issue but in all likely-hood it is something more serious.

 

[Lt.Mike]

Thanks guys. I did address the hydraulic lock possibility by removing the plugs and that wasn't it. (Which is a good thing)
My head was in a fog last night thinking about how bad this could be so I went to bed early. My wife Bless her, giving support saying you'll figure this out.
I slept on it, well kind of slept, mulling this over and over in my head. I tried to think of a cause because 90% of the time things just don't happen, there is a reason.
Putting my pride aside I may have an answer. There is a flushing port on the head and though I should have known better I did run the motor off of that. While the head was running cool, the impeller wasn't and was probably damaged in the process. I'd like to use the excuse that there is no owners manual available for this engine but I should have known better.
The movement on the shaft shows the engine is not seized. (another good thing) 1 1/2" movement on the edge of the flywheel is about 1/4 turn on the shaft...which is about the flex of an impeller fin.
I may be reaching there I know...
I also did spin the prop freely in neutral but I didn't check for cracks. I've heard that can be an issue with these engines so I will check for that.

My plan I woke up with is to drop the lower unit and as bad as it sounds I'm hoping to find the crank frees up and the impeller hanging up the lower units shaft.
I didn't replace the impeller this season so if thats all I have to repair/replace I may come out of this with an education.
A water pump housing kit is cheaper than a new power head for sure so please keep your fingers crossed for me.
I really appreciate your input guys, thanks again.
Mike.

 

[ROBERTH]

Let's hope it is as simple as the impeller stuck.

This weekend when I pulled out at the ramp, another guy pulled out and up next to me and started asking about fishing luck. It dawned on me that his motor was sitting there on the trailer and peeing. I asked him, is your motor still running? He ran to the key and turned it off. I thought, wow, so quiet he didn't even remember to turn it off. I can see that happening! But would have thought the exhaust out of the water would have been loud!

This was a Suzuki 4 stroke motor.

I know my HPDI's will make some noise when out of the water so you will know it is running!

Now I wonder about his impeller. I bet it was running for approx. 3 or 4 minutes before he realized it was running. However it was still peeing. Hard to believe it could still have that much water in the motor for that long.

 

[Lt.Mike]

Ya mine being fed from the port in the head was peeing a very strong stream of water but It probably wasn't reaching the impeller.
I'm sitting at my desk watching the clock waiting for the end of the workday so that I may get to wrenching and get an answer.

 

[suzukidave]

can you turn the prop in gear (with the plugs out!) or is it seized with the same amount of play?

i hope the impeller is the solution. a seized/broken gear or drive shaft is another possibility. if the motor was running fine and then seized while sitting i would not expect any play unless your crank bearings are totalled, but i suppose the starter could have broken something the first time you cranked it. otoh, if your gear case seal failed allowing a lot of water in then having the gears seize while sitting would leave a little bit of play remaining.

since getting my ocean runner i have refused to use the upper flush port. i know they are supposed to work but i just don't trust them and i worry about backflushing debris into places it would never go with water flow coming from the leg.

 

[Lt.Mike]

can you turn the prop in gear (with the plugs out!) or is it seized with the same amount of play?

Pulling the plugs made no difference.
It just feels like something is restricting the engine from rotating more than a quarter turn.
I intend to vote on my way home, grab a cup of coffee when I get home and then have at it.
I should have enough time to confirm or rule out the impeller as the problem or at least is the problem in the power head or lower unit.

Oh and it'll never run on the upper port again. Muffs from here on.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I'm sitting at my desk watching the clock waiting for the end of the workday so that I may get to wrenching and get an answer.

Like its been said, be careful what you ask for.

Do you see any hairline cracks in the lower unit near the prop?

.
Well ya, now that you mention it. :roll: You called it Brian (GW204)
A picture is worth a thousand words.
I haven't dropped it yet but I will before I move forward so that I may confirm that the powerhead is OK.
I did drain the lower units fluid and but didn't see any obvious water. I used a clear container and will let it sit overnight to settle.
I'll see what tomorrow shows. Looking at the lift in the case something must have shifted and bound up.

 

[suzukidave]

on the bright side, that's a lot better outcome than the powerhead. plug and play is always a good thing with a motor repair.

 

[seasick]

Assuming you have checked that the starter (Bendix) gear is disengaged then dropping the LU would be the next logical step I suppose. What is mysterious is why this would happen after running fine and then sitting for a while. One more question. When the rotation of the flywheel stops after 1/4 turn as you said, it that stoppage always at the same spot or does the flywheel turn a bit and then stop, each time the stoppage being past the previous spot?
Have you tried to rotate the flywheel backwards?

 

[Lt.Mike]

Ya a LU is better than a power head I guess but surfing the net has made it clear that finding a rebuilt LU for a Suzuki isn't gonna be easy. I think my season is officially done. Anyone have a rebuild source in NJ?

 

[suzukidave]

Assuming you have checked that the starter (Bendix) gear is disengaged then dropping the LU would be the next logical step I suppose. What is mysterious is why this would happen after running fine and then sitting for a while. One more question. When the rotation of the flywheel stops after 1/4 turn as you said, it that stoppage always at the same spot or does the flywheel turn a bit and then stop, each time the stoppage being past the previous spot?
Have you tried to rotate the flywheel backwards?

it may have been coming for a while and the crack might originate from water in the gear oil last winter or something else. the last time the boat ran the lower unit ingested water through that crack which washed away lubrication and may have been overheating the gears. then the motor slept for a month while rust didn't sleep.

 

[gw204]

I won't pretend to know the cause of that crack, but I do know it's a common issue. So it may or may not be the cause of your problem. Let us know what you find when you drop the lower. Fingers crossed your problem is there.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I called around today getting ballpark figures on lower unit repairs.
I found that there does not appear to be anyone offering core trade ins for rebuilt Suzuki lowers like there are for Yamaha, Merc, or OMC. Lower unit rebuilds for those engines are typically around $1500 and carry a warranty.
Suzuki also stopped selling complete units for the older motors ('03 is old???)
A replacement case is $1600 and having spoken with a mechanic that has done quite a few of them I'm looking at around $3000 for a complete repair.
Used units are rarer than hens teeth and its just rolling the dice to swap another used unit in. I'd consider it but there is a limit to how much I'd spend for that gamble.
This motor had 386 hrs on the clock and should have been a safe bet. I probably only added 30 hrs. and here I am.

I still have to go home today to drop the unit. As discussed with the mechanic the first order of business is to drop the lower unit and verify that the power head is ok and the issue is in the lower. That can't be done until it's apart. I didn't get that finished yesterday as finding the crack pretty much completed my day.
We'll see what today brings.
Mike.

 

[gw204]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-DT200-v6 ... 43d1a463ef

 

[Lt.Mike]

Ok I pulled the lower unit and thats not the problem. The crack could probably be welded as now I see it is only in the exhaust port. Thats why there was no water in the oil. It turns freely.
What doesn't turn is the crankshaft from the flywheel. Its official, the problem is in the powerhead.
This hurts. I've got a dead motor that I'll still be paying for the next couple of years. One expensive lawn ornament.
Only used it for about a dozen trips and some 30 hrs where it ran flawless. Not one clue of a problem and when it was last run I shut it down, it didn't quit. Around 420hrs is all it has on it(?).
I had an '88 Force 125 that I ran hard for over 20 years that never let me down and it was running when I sold it.
I babied this engine and it quits for no apparent reason.
Tell you what, I will never, never buy another Suzuki again.
Resources and parts availability are virtually non-existent compared to the American engine manufacturers.
I will reach out to the dealership and see if there is any hope for repair. But I'm not to optimistic.

 

[suzukidave]

well this thread is a roller coaster ride. sorry mike.

just realized my username might imply some special knowledge about suzukis. i had a suzuki many years ago when i first joined a boat forum to find a shop manual so i kept the name. the motor served me faithfully for many years then died on the guy who bought it off me within a month.

anyway, i digress. if the starter is not engaged and the driveshaft is free of the gearcase then yikes. you can try soaking the cylinders in marvel mystery oil for a week to see if it breaks loose. beyond that you can remove the heads but given the condition of the lower unit it won't take much to look at other power.

 

[gw204]

Ugh...that sucks. Sorry to hear than man.

Pull the heads. You have nothing to lose by doing so.

 

[seasick]

You might try removing the oil pump to see if it is frozen. I had previously asked if the flywheel always stops in the same spot and how much it moves before stopping. If pistons were seized, the crank usually wont move very much if at all. If a rod broke or a wrist pin, there will be motion. I would also remove the flywheel, perhaps before the oil pump, to see if something came loose and is blocking the rotation of it. All is not lost yet.