Need input on Graphs and Transducers Sorry very long.

[A&J Outdoors]

I could really use some input on graphs and transducers for our 03 282 we just got.

My experience is with 2 boats over the past 14 years in freshwater and inshore. During this time I used Lowrance graphs and transom mounted transducers, with 2d, chirp, down and side imaging.

The 282 came with a very old Raymarine unit with sonar, but the head unit was burned out. It also has Raymarine autopilot which did not work. The other graph is a Garmin GPSmap 4208 with a Garmin GSD 22 black box.

My plan was to pull all the Raymarine stuff (which I have) and use the current Garmin until I could update. Final setup with include 2 - 9” graphs (I’ve watched the debates of bigger vs smaller, but this is what I’m going with), radar, and auto pilot. I was leaning towards Simrad because of it’s similarities to Lowrance (I think one owns the other) and to me it has always been one of the best offshore brands. Now I see a lot of Garmin out there, and especially here on this site.

On to current transducer issue, in the bilge I found an Airmar in hull transducer which I assumed went to the Garmin, but it was actually hooked to the Raymarine. It appears that many of the brands have an Airmar in hull transducer, which all look about the same, could I get the Garmin version (The most expensive) and install it into the mount that is already there and hook it to the GSD 22?

Then upon further exploration in the bilge I found the other transducer pictured below, it is a transom mount transducer, but it was laying in the bilge, it couldn’t even reach to the transom, and this is the one that was hooked to the Garmin… I did have a buddy say maybe it was epoxied to the hull and used as a shoot through, but there was no indication of epoxy. I have no idea why it was installed like that.

So going forward, I can try to find a transducer that would work with the current Garmin and still work with a newer one (GPSMAP 943xsv) and build a Garmin system, or dump it all and convince the wife I need to purchase a new Simrad NSX 3009 and a transducer.

Transducers, again my experience is only with transom mounted, so the in hull and through hull are new to me. It seems like you have to use multiple transducers if you want to use the full capability of the graphs (2d, chirp, down image, and side image), I am really at a loss for what to do about transducers. Will be fishing 20' - 1000'.

I’m sure I left out some information, but please let me know your thoughts.

 

[glacierbaze]

For simplicity, Garmin now makes a multi function, tramsom mounted transducer that gives you down, side, chirp, etc., all in one. It may have a plug and play model for your G4208.
I would install a NEMA2000 network, and get everything on that.
Something like this:

Garmin GT30-TM DownVu/SideVu Transom Mount Transducer | The GPS Store

Garmin's GT30-TM 12-Pin 500W DownVu/SideVu Transom Mount Transducer provides crisp, clear photo like images of fish and structure below the boat when paired with the GCV10, echoMAP CHIRP sv Models, GPSMAP 7600xsv Series and GSD25. Built-In Temperature Sensor Garmin's 010-12089-00 Transom Mount T...

www.thegpsstore.com

 

[A&J Outdoors]

For simplicity, Garmin now makes a multi function, tramsom mounted transducer that gives you down, side, chirp, etc., all in one. It may have a plug and play model for your G4208.
I would install a NEMA2000 network, and get everything on that.
Something like this:

Garmin GT30-TM DownVu/SideVu Transom Mount Transducer | The GPS Store

Garmin's GT30-TM 12-Pin 500W DownVu/SideVu Transom Mount Transducer provides crisp, clear photo like images of fish and structure below the boat when paired with the GCV10, echoMAP CHIRP sv Models, GPSMAP 7600xsv Series and GSD25. Built-In Temperature Sensor Garmin's 010-12089-00 Transom Mount T...

www.thegpsstore.com

That is an option, just not sure I like the idea of a transom mount on this boat.

 

[wspitler]

Transducers will not operate on the NMEA2000 network. They are connected directly to either a stand alone sonar box such as Garmin's GSD series or directly to a self contained sonar transmitted in the MFD itself such as the Garmin GPSMAP series of MFDs. The NMEA 2000 network only shares the information (data) between various units. The majority of transducers are made by Airmar and have different part numbers for Garmin, Raytheon, Lowrance, etc. Most will work with any system. Airmar has a cross reference to their model numbers that match the various MFD manufactures. Your first picture may be a shoot thru the hull (likely glued to the inside of the hull) and the second transom mounted. The model # is usually on the cord at some point. Use the cross reference to see if compatible. Also some MFDs can drive multiple transducers simultaneously.

 

[glacierbaze]

Not for the transducers, except maybe fuel flow, but if he is redoing his electronics package, I would be looking to get everything on a NEMA network.

 

[wspitler]

Not for the transducers, except maybe fuel flow, but if he is redoing his electronics package, I would be looking to get everything on a NEMA network.

Absolutely!

 

[A&J Outdoors]

Not for the transducers, except maybe fuel flow, but if he is redoing his electronics package, I would be looking to get everything on a NEMA network.

Yeah that is something I will be doing, right now I'm just trying to find out the best way to get one graph and transducer on the boat. Then as money allows I will add the other components that I want.

 

[SkunkBoat]

The first one is a low end "in-hull" Airmar. Glued to hull, shoots thru the hull. Several models use that housing. Usually a tag with model near the plug. They make the same unts with different plugs for Garmin, Raymarine,Lowrance, etc. Sometimes you can re-plug them to a different mfg plug. You need to identify what you have before we can determine if you can use it with the GSD22. The GSD22 is old and not a CHIRP sonar. It was capable of driving a 2kW transducer though. The GSD22 uses 8pin plug. Can use a 6 pin with an adapter. If it was connected to an old Raymarine then its probably a P79 traditional 50/200khz 600w. In theory, it could be connected to a GSD22 with the right plug. Assuming it still works...

The other one is a transom mount. You say its connected to the GSD22? Is it Garmin branded? Again, need to know the model. Sometimes you can lay a transom mount in a puddle in the bilge and get it to sort of work. I have done that in the past when a transom mounted xducer failed mid season and I didn't want to pull the boat to replace it. You can also epoxy them inside the hull and make them a half assed permanent in-hull. I've done that too.
Of course, that loses a lot of signal and doesn't work with sidescan trasducers.

The 4208 doesn't have sonar built in. The GSD22 is providing that to the 4208 over the Garmin marine network (ethernet cable)
The 4208 will not work with the new garmin Fantom radars.

You plan to buy two new MFDs? They will have built-in sonar. Buy one that INCLUDES a transom mount tranducer. Way cheaper than buying separately.
You can mount between motors and get really good sidevu results at trolling speeds. The other mfd buy without a transducer to save money. You don't need two transom xducers.

Garmin Sidevu works really well at high speed if you use a thru hull mount GT51. They cost $700.

You are in a situation like I was. I had a 4208 and GSD22 and wanted to upgrade. I put one new 12" garmin 1242xsv in the dash connected to a thru hull GT51. I put the 4208 up top as dedicated sonar display that can be seen from the cockpit. I ended up upgrading the GSD22 to a GSD24 and connected to a 2kw R199 Airmar shoot thru tub. It reads bottom in 3000ft.


Here are some threads on the subject
Garmin- researching my upgrade options

Shoot-thru tub in 265express?

https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/265-mods.25902/post-217828

 

[A&J Outdoors]

The first one is a low end "in-hull" Airmar. Glued to hull, shoots thru the hull. Several models use that housing. Usually a tag with model near the plug. They make the same unts with different plugs for Garmin, Raymarine,Lowrance, etc. Sometimes you can re-plug them to a different mfg plug. You need to identify what you have before we can determine if you can use it with the GSD22. The GSD22 is old and not a CHIRP sonar. It was capable of driving a 2kW transducer though. The GSD22 uses 8pin plug. Can use a 6 pin with an adapter. If it was connected to an old Raymarine then its probably a P79 traditional 50/200khz 600w. In theory, it could be connected to a GSD22 with the right plug. Assuming it still works...

The other one is a transom mount. You say its connected to the GSD22? Is it Garmin branded? Again, need to know the model. Sometimes you can lay a transom mount in a puddle in the bilge and get it to sort of work. I have done that in the past when a transom mounted xducer failed mid season and I didn't want to pull the boat to replace it. You can also epoxy them inside the hull and make them a half assed permanent in-hull. I've done that too.
Of course, that loses a lot of signal and doesn't work with sidescan trasducers.

The 4208 doesn't have sonar built in. The GSD22 is providing that to the 4208 over the Garmin marine network (ethernet cable)
The 4208 will not work with the new garmin Fantom radars.

You plan to buy two new MFDs? They will have built-in sonar. Buy one that INCLUDES a transom mount tranducer. Way cheaper than buying separately.
You can mount between motors and get really good sidevu results at trolling speeds. The other mfd buy without a transducer to save money. You don't need two transom xducers.

Garmin Sidevu works really well at high speed if you use a thru hull mount GT51. They cost $700.

You are in a situation like I was. I had a 4208 and GSD22 and wanted to upgrade. I put one new 12" garmin 1242xsv in the dash connected to a thru hull GT51. I put the 4208 up top as dedicated sonar display that can be seen from the cockpit. I ended up upgrading the GSD22 to a GSD24 and connected to a 2kw R199 Airmar shoot thru tub. It reads bottom in 3000ft.


Here are some threads on the subject
Garmin- researching my upgrade options

Shoot-thru tub in 265express?

https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/265-mods.25902/post-217828

Thank you very much for the detailed info, I will dive into this, digest it, and I'm sure I will be back with more questions.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Question. Are you sure there isn't an old B744 thru hull on your boat?. The GSD22 was usually connected to thru-hull back in the day...

 

[wspitler]

The best Garmin transom mount with side view is (IMHO) the GT-56. It has traditional Chirp and sidescan. Unfortunately, the 4208 will not drive that transducer. I have dual 1243xsv with an old thru hull 1KW AIRMAR and a GT-56TM . Each MFD drives one transducer without a sonar box. The higher end Garmin GPSMAP 86XX can drive two transducers from one MFD. The Garmin UHD models can drive the GT-56, but the transducer is the key. Depending on your budget, don't scrimp on the transducer!

 

[Hookup1]

It's really not that complicated. You are confusing your self with all the options. If you are going Garmin I'll simplify it for you.

Install a GT5x-TH transducer on the centerline. I'm using a GT51M-TH. If you like one of the the other frequency transducers go for it.
If there is a GSD 22 sounder and 4208 MFD take them out and sell on eBay.
If there are other transducers currently installed get the info off the tag. They could be second or third transducers on your Garmin displays.

943xsv display will support one transducer. Two displays = two transducers. 86xx xsv's will support two transducers each. More importantly they are a little more than double the screen resolution. Bigger screens and higher resolution are better but do what you can afford. Better to invest up front than to upgrade later but it's your call.

If you are considering Simrad or some other brand I can't help. I'm all in on my Garmin install.

 

[A&J Outdoors]

Question. Are you sure there isn't an old B744 thru hull on your boat?. The GSD22 was usually connected to thru-hull back in the day...

Nope, just one transducer hooked to the GSD22 and it's the transom mount that is laying in the bilge..

 

[SkunkBoat]

Nope, just one transducer hooked to the GSD22 and it's the transom mount that is laying in the bilge..

You're sure there isn't one thats not connected. That transom mount is definitely not original to the boat.

 

[A&J Outdoors]

You're sure there isn't one thats not connected. That transom mount is definitely not original to the boat.

I wish you were right, and I'll look again, but we did trace the transom transducer to the GSD 22..

 

[A&J Outdoors]

You plan to buy two new MFDs? They will have built-in sonar. Buy one that INCLUDES a transom mount tranducer. Way cheaper than buying separately.
You can mount between motors and get really good sidevu results at trolling speeds. The other mfd buy without a transducer to save money. You don't need two transom xducers.

So this is the first I've head of using the transom mount transducer. It just seems no one uses them on these bigger boats. That is good to know.

 

[A&J Outdoors]

A little update, as I was contemplating Simrad vs Garmin, I recalled that I had a new in box transducer that came with my last Lowrance. I didn't use it as I already had a transducer on the boat. The transducer is the TotalScan all in one transom mount model. It works with Lowrance and Simrad. So I did some checking and it is compatible with the new Simrad units. So I ordered a Simrad NSX and will use the totalscan transducer. Later as funding allows, I will add radar, another NSX, and Auto Pilot. But for now the one graph and transducer will work. Thanks everyone for the input, I do appreciate it.

 

[HTHM]

You may find that that transducer looses bottom over 40 MPH, that has been my experience with mine on a Lowrance Carbon.

 

[A&J Outdoors]

You may find that that transducer looses bottom over 40 MPH, that has been my experience with mine on a Lowrance Carbon.

If I'm doing over 40 I'm probably not looking for fish. Yeah this is to get me started, once I get the second NSX I'll look at through hull transducers.