Replacing 1983 Seafarer floor/gas tank

[BobP]

The bulkheads usually extend each way beyond the main stringers, remember it's like an egg crate. I bet the rear one does for sure.

Presuming you want to use the boat and want to do this in steps so you can, how far back does the mian stringer go? Beyond the rear bulkhead?

If it does, cut the entire middle to get to it's terminus, the mains are very important.

Then do the mains as far forward as you can at least to the next cross over bulkhead, the rest forward is under the cabin liner, and all the way back. The ones in the cabin are doable too, just some more work to cut out the lower1 foot of cabin liner.

If you remove only the wood from the mains, you wil see the skin on the other side. Clean it off flat, see how straight and true it is, probably distorted from loss of the wood, build it up with mat to get and valleys out and add a layer of mat 1.5 oz across the entire face incl where the bulkead continues under the fixed floor (to seal the water from leaching back into new core), then make the cardboard template of the entire length, transfer to your new core sheet, then you can bond the new core to the existing skln by applying pressure from the other stringer, add some sheets over there because only the foam is left structurually. Use a heavy mix mix of thickened resin, 3/16 inch on the notched trowel. Get the most contact surface you can even if you need to lump on the silica more in any depressions. Then tab and glass the side you work from. Once completed, doe the other main,

Then you do the rear bulkhead, new glass both sides. and tie it into the mains with 3 tabs of 1708, make sure there are no gaps where they meet, just load on the thickened resin.
The drain tube on the bottom, put a new one it. it's PVC as I recall.

Then do the next bulkhead forward that crosses the beam, there may be one partial bulkhead at the base of the walkarund on each side - forget it since it's under the fixed floor, for now.

Don't forget to get the holes in place for the tank fill, vend and feed hoses. And install all new hoses.

The new new mains and two bulkheads will sure up the boat I expect, but you can continue forward working in the cabin, more restrictive. Draw a line about a 1 ft horizontal and one down the middle, visualized getting out the lower liner to accees the bulheads and stringers, two more new ones may start up there and go forward. I use the dremel wit the cutting bit, works good enough. The upper liner will stay but, it hangs from the gunnel.

Then the last phase can be the fixed floor areas in the cockpit, you need to make a cut so you can add slice plates going back, on three sides. Gut the foam and find the other stringer and remainder of bulkheads, and do it the same as before. grind the old tab off completely oiff the hull, don't screw around trying to save any glass, a waste of time.

If you don't have a 4-1/2 angle grinder you will get nothing done, take the guard off and get the rubber disk to use the non velcro regular sanding disks with the hole in the middle, buy several dozen on the web, 36 grit, the depot sells them too individually.
You can get the foam in two cylinder kits off internet.

 

[Grog]

If they didn't glass the stringer all the way up on the tank side, it's not going to be glassed on the outboard side either. 1 layer (actually 3/4) of roven is not enough to bond to. Get a 5 gallon pail of polyester resin, use the epoxy when you're beter with it because you're going to screw up. $125 for a 5 gallon pail of polyester or 1.5 gallons of epoxy.

 

[BobP]

Good point, I'm not surprised Grady didn't go to the top on either side.

But nonetheless, the foam is there flat on that back side, so he can add an entire new skin to face of existing skin and/or foam, hence my suggestion of the 1.5 oz mat, he can also do it in 1708 as I would, hate using 1.5 oz mat -it hair balls up when using spreader and refuses to take bends with epoxy resins. I do use layers of 3/4 oz mat, takes better to epoxy but still a springboard - less hair. While he's at it, he can poke a hole thru skin down low by hull and to the rear to see if water comes out - an indication foam is soaked. Can always seal it after some time with heat lamp if leaking out and come back next year to do under fixed floor area.
If no water comes out, no problem in there wit foam, IMHO. Doesn't mean outboard stringer is not shot as I expect it is too. But the heavy fab mat glass skins are doing something, and I do bet the wood may not be as bad.

I would also expect Grady to have the tabs down proper, that's all it really needs on backside.

I undertand when bonding to existing anything, epoxy resins are the way to go, the polyesters not so good, so only recommended for entire new construction like a console, etc.

Epoxy resins can be sold very economically in bulk on internet. Forget West Products if looking. And little or no VOCs, I don't use a vapor filter mask with them, and no odor. Only a wiff when first combining, as I turn away from pot, after that, no smell at all.

All of my suggestions are to someone who has one boat and wants to get it into the water, not someone with a boat in water and another one for a project where schedule doesn't matter like when cows come home.

I see OP being able to do entire boat in three stages if he so desires, the first stage will secure the boat from a safety perspection, IMHO. If the transon is also black, it needs 1st stage coverage, if just wet and not black thruout, can wait until stage II.

 

[richie rich]

The bulkheads usually extend each way beyond the main stringers, remember it's like an egg crate. I bet the rear one does for sure.

Then the last phase can be the fixed floor areas in the cockpit, you need to make a cut so you can add slice plates going back, on three sides. Gut the foam and find the other stringer and remainder of bulkheads, and do it the same as before. grind the old tab off completely oiff the hull, don't screw around trying to save any glass, a waste of time.
.

The bulkhead at the transom goes all the way across....the one shown in the picture between the stringers only goes as far as the second stringer under the deck...so if he doesn't want to go "all the way", just replace what was just removed in the photo. But if he goes to the "last phase" as Bob suggested, you might as well forget phase one and putting in all kinds of matt and thickened resin and "trying" to get a new wooden stringer to bond properly to that little inside skin.....that is the route I initially went with and it cost me lots and lots of wasted time grinding and prepping as I eventually had to cut the deck off which then exposed EVERYTHING, which would have made life so much easier...now I had access to all the stringers and the foam and the old fuel fill hoses etc. Once you expose that area, just sawzall everything, grind off the tabbing and prep the hull surface, and start glueing in new wood, new tabs and new cover glass.....much cleaner and faster in the long run.

 

[BobP]

I forgot to add, the subject title is more suitable to "1983 Seafarer restoration", than current.

When he gets done, boat will be stronger than new, and deck (tank cover and bilge cover)will be stiffer and sound more solid, and 2nd life will start from day one at launch, as the fiberglass hull itself generally lasts forever.

 

[BobP]

Richie, it's easy to bond the new stringer, just use silica thickened resin, plenty of it, and apply pressure with 2x4s and some wedges across from other side, don't need much pressure, tremedous strength in silica thickened resin. Working in middle gas tank open area is easy.

Adding another layer of glass to existing skin is easy too if wetting out on flat sheeted surface, wets fast, then unfurl it in boat, I can do that entire stringer skin with one single cut of cloth with slow hardener, and in same cure fully wet out ply and mix up a batch of thickened resin to do 3/16 notched trowel.

As far as your way faster, you have to replace the major foam and seal it, and two more stringers to do, new tabs for main stringers, cut out and and splice the fixed floor back in place and bevel and glass on the top side joint and fair it, on both sides of cockpit, then gel coat or paint.

Cleaner yes, no way faster.

I want to see the Op in the water on the boat using it, if it's not for use now and is a so called "trailer queen", and season for use doesn't matter, then I would do it your way myself.

We have too short of a season to miss any of it, IMHO.
At least that's how I see it.

He's getting all the advise he needs to do it either in one shot or by season.

If the existing skin is distorted too heavily from the loss of wood structure, he will see right away by using a straight edge or fiting up the new cut stringer against it. I doubt the skin is that bad, I 'd use a wide wall compound knife and level out any depressions with thickened resin after adding the one layer of 1708, all done in one shot incl placing the stringer in place, setting overnite to keep going. 60 grid hand sand first old skin. The wood is so bad, a belt sander with 50 grit will get what's left off to flat fast. Stiff blade putty knife wit hammer to first get off the chucks.

From end to end it should not have twisted, but there may be a slight buckle - if so it would tend to be mid lenght.

 

[richie rich]

Bob, to go from this...

To this, takes a lot of time....all that surface area needs to be ground clean...using a 4 inch disc grinder works great but takes forever. It looks small, but so is the edge of a 4 inch disc.

This is what you normally do when you're replacing the transom....and when you bed the new plywood into the old transom skin, you're clamping and thru bolting on the entire surface to get good intimate contact between the 2 surfaces using thickened resin......to try and do that with some 2x4 supports will be iffy in my opinion..the plywood in that area will be 8 feet long and 15 inches high and will be fairly rigid......I think you will have areas without good contact....I was going this way myself until I nicked the glass at the bottom of the stringer when I was grinding and water came pouring out from behind it...thats when the sawzall came out......if the OP intends to just stick in the current confinements of the fuel tank area, then OK give it a shot and use lots of 2x4s across the entire stringer....but if he will go to phase 3 anytime in the near future, I would do it now.

 

[gw204]

If I were you, I would look into a very different approach since you have pretty much determine everything under the deck is trash.

Pull the cap and liner so you have a bare hull to work with! Either that or throw the boat away...

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

If I were you, I would look into a very different approach since you have pretty much determine everything under the deck is trash.

Pull the cap and liner so you have a bare hull to work with! Either that or throw the boat away...

Unfortunately i have to agree with that. If you try to do anything else, all is going to be is a "patch". Lift the cap and see what you dealing with.
Also, you can NOT glass over the old polyester woven roven because your new glass would be as strong as the OLD glass is, which if you try pulling from a corner it will come out so easy you wouldn't believe.

 

[BobP]

Did the Op say the transom was shot too ?
If so then go in from the inside as Richie shows, if not can come back later from the rear side of hull and do transom from that direction whenever it does need to be replaced.

Then as far as the rear bulkhead if transom is good, he can keep the rear side of the rear bulkhead glass and tabbing as is, cut thru nothing, and bond the new bulkhead to that, then tab in the near side as new glass & tabbing. That bulkhead is finished as good as new.

To say the existing tabbing of polyester is no good, is to say the hull is no good since new tabbing is going to be glassed to the one and the same hull polyester glass the same.

The 2x4 braces called for was to go across the beam to apply force to the the new stringer against the existing skin, if one exists, one stringer at a time, the tabbing has to exist and that's all the solid contact that matters.
Braces mentioned had nothing to to with the transom. Transoms are done from either inside or outside the hull.

Since only about the 1st foot of the stringer and bulkhead height in this boat, all of it, from the bottom up, it is what has to do with structural integrity of the hull in an outboard powered boat, everything above it is Gradys way of providing a deck support for a flat floor as well as a dam for high foam. So the 1st foot of bonding is easy to attain to existing tabbing/glass. The rest of the glass up to the top is Gradys way of sealing the plywood from checking.

If he takes off the cap, the hull may twist out of shape and be useless to muscle back into shape without a mold or form of some kind first set up. Too late then to try if it does not fit.

If the plan recommended here is to replace every piece of wood in the hull with new wood and new glass it in, all at the same time, and all new flotation, either scrap the project or turn it into a kiddie pool or planter.
Who would argue with that?

Some are into rebuilding boats as a hobby and go from one project to the next project with little time if any in the water with them, or even finishig one before staring the next, some are into doing what needs to be done to get a safe usable boat from what was started with, then use it as intended seasonally, as a boat.

With due consideration to time available and supporting the cost to replace the boat with a usable one or getting a usable one or new one to begin with, to each his own. I think classicmako.com is for the hobbyist primarily (some may call them fanatic about it), here at GG it tends to be for attaining a usable safe boat condition, and using the boat, and keeping it.

For the OP, I'd like to see him on the water one day on the boat !
Long live the Seafarer!
Good luck with your project.

 

[richie rich]

Did the Op say the transom was shot too ?
The 2x4 braces called for was to go across the beam to apply force to the the new stringer against the existing skin, if one exists, one stringer at a time, the tabbing has to exist and that's all the solid contact that matters.
Braces mentioned had nothing to to with the transom. Transoms are done from either inside or outside the hull.


For the OP, I'd like to see him on the water one day on the boat !
Long live the Seafarer!
Good luck with your project.

Bob, I was using the "transom and 2x4" wording as an example of how folks clamp in a new core...since you have both sides of a transom exposed, its a big clamp when thru bolting it.....using the other stringer as a base to prop 2x4's against the opposite new core, like shoring up a wall in construction, is and option anyway...just need a bunch of them spread across the length of the stringer....

I think the job can be done...( from 1st hand experience).... but its more work than I thought it would ever be......this project will be the same so its a personal choice of how far and at what budget one has to finish the job. I'd like to see it done....

 

[gw204]

Did the Op say the transom was shot too ?

When the rest of the boat looks like it does, you can probably bet on it.

 

[mac83]

The transom appears to be in good shape. I'm trying to figure out how to replace the rear bulkhead without tearing up the floor. I wonder if I should just plan on replacing the floor also?

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Richie, is this what you mean ?

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

The transom appears to be in good shape. I'm trying to figure out how to replace the rear bulkhead without tearing up the floor. I wonder if I should just plan on replacing the floor also?

How did you check the transom ?
When i started my Formula i could swear that the transom was solid. Felt solid, moisture meter did NOT show anything, the hammer thing passed my test, but i said since i am doing the rest of the boat, then mind as well put a new transom too. I am glad i did.

All the rot was from the inside, not from the outside where we usually check the transom.

 

[richie rich]

Correct NEM....that is the typical way of replacing the transom core as you well know.....you get full contact between core and existing skin doing it like that......I understand Bob's idea of using one skin to bond in a new stringer core and using the opposite stringer as a wedge to prop one side versus another using a 2x4....and if the rest of the grid looks good, why not...that would be a great way to fix whats wrong and leave the rest well enough alone......here is where we go in different directions and its strictly based on a case by case basis....what are you working with? I started simple and ended up doing a full blown rebuild....but MAC may be OK if the transom is fine....replace and glue in a new stringer using a very well prepped inside skin.......put in a new tank....add in a new bulkhead....and go fishing......sounds easy...and its always tougher than one thinks.....just how far do you go??? Thats the big variable.....so what?

Mac, the rear bulkhead will span from one deck edge to the other deck edge...look at my picture....I cut the rear bulkhead to the first stringer as shown.....then when you go beyond the stringer, there is another piece of wood making up the remainder of the bulkhead going towards the gunwale.....its no biggie....it can be glued in on its own later....thats the good part of fiberglass...all parts can be put in later with a little sanding and grinding....and if it comes out wrong...just grind away again and relaminate.....nothing will kill the project....

The key now is to grind/sand and prep the area..no bumps....grind the woven cloth until its smooth/flat....if you just grind the tops, you'll only get 50% prep coverage....grind it flat and lets see how it looks and then start gluing in one piece at a time....it gets better after the demo and prep is complete.

 

[gw204]

I love the resin hand print!!! :lol:

 

[mac83]

I'm ready to start ordering some fiberglass supplies. Where is the best place everyone has found? Should I just go to my local West Marine? Thanks everyone.

 

[richie rich]

http://boatbuildercentral.com/

these guys have great prices and great products with lots of rebuilding help.....If I were you, I would join their forum, post pics, and get a lot of help from some very experienced people who run the site. I believe they have an add on this site as well. This kind of rebuild is what their business is all about.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

I love the resin hand print!!! :lol:

That was my son, he had the rubber gloves on and wanted to be creative thinking his palm print would stay there for the rest of the transoms life :lol: :lol: