Replacing 1983 Seafarer floor/gas tank

[richie rich]

What Brian mentioned will work if you have some grid left up front and you have any markings at all on the hull....you can take measurments or snap a chaulk line .....based on your picture you still have tabbing left on the hull...thats all you need.....take a plumb bob and hang it under the fishbox area untill the tip hits the tab marks...make a mark at the bow, the fishbox and at the transom and you have a 3 point straight line. I believe that hull is a 20 degree deadrise from midship back, so double check the angle, cut a test piece and set the piece on the tab mark and see how it lines up with the plumb bob mark under the fish box...should be flush and perpendicular.

to replicate the 1/4 inch drop and fill of resin/matt....once the stringer is in, if there are any short falls or inconsistencies, run a 1 inch strip of wood along the top sides of the new stringer and make sure they touch the underside of the fishbox. Temporarily use screws to hold them...fit your deck and check for level......then before final deck replacement just use thickened epoxy to fill in the gaps and make a bed for bonding the deck.

PS ...Grinding glass is fun......NOT :shock:

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Wow, now the fun really begins......grind the heck out of it all at once and get it over with....its gonna be nasty, but you'll be glad when thats all over........

What? You don't think grinding is fun????

What you talking about? I can't wait after grinding for that long awaiting ITCH. :dance :dance :dance

 

[mac83]

Well I was back at it this weekend. I managed to get all of the starboard stringers out. I think I got rid of all the rotted wood. I am really not too sure about one thing. My bulkhead under the helm, entering the cabin is rotted where the stringers intersected with it. I pushed a screwdriver in as far as I could push, where the stringer continues to go into the cabin. It's rotted....I really don't want to tear up the cabin mainly because I'm not confident on my gel coating skills....what is everyone's thoughts? Thanks guys.

 

[richie rich]

Mike...post a pic of what youre looking at removing.....a bulkhead is no big deal...but you want to be strategic on where you cut

 

[mac83]

I'll get the picture posted in the next day or so....

 

[mac83]

You can see that both the left side and right side of the bulkhead is gone. The middle is in good shape but I'm going to get rid of at least the wood. I really dont want to cut into the cabin because I'm not that confident in my gel-coating skills...You can see that both main stringers have been gutted out with a screwdriver. How can I get to that stringer without tearing up the cabin.

 

[richie rich]

When you say gone, do you mean you cut it away and just left the center section? On a Sailfish, there only is a center section bulkhead...the stringer grid makes up the rest on both sides going forward towards the bow. And on a Sailfish, there is no gelcoat on the opposite side, just glass.....the second bulkhead thats supporting the deck behind the stairs is removable...its that fake wood grain crappy plywood. Do you not have that behind the staircase? I guess the Seafarer is much smaller and doesnt have that double bulkhead....

anyway, if the center portion is actually gelcoat finished and exposed on the V-berth side and its dry and no rot, you can probaly leave it in place....just clean it bare from the exposed side and make sure its totally dry and ready for new glass. Especially underneath along the end grain that rests above the hull. As far as the stringers, can you show a close up of where you left off gutting the grid, and also a shot from the V-berth side on where the grid continues on.....you have to connect the new rear grid with the old existing/remaining grid, somehow....even if you have access to the stringer from one side you can connect it.

Grady used butt joints and a single butt block on one side to join the wood pieces...then they glass the joint over to secure them...a double butt joint, ie, a block or plate of wood glued in from both sides of the joint, would be better, but not necessary...it lasted this long without one.

If for some reason you need to remove the entire grid all the way to the bow, you will have no choice but to cut the V-berth up to remove the forward portion of the stringer....there is no other way. At that point, if cutting the berth out isnt in the cards, I would just leave it....just concentrate on connecting the old with the new.

PS..move those dam hoses out of the way so we can see better

 

[gw204]

If your stringers were bad that far forward, they are bad under the cabin and need to be replaced. Gelcoating isn't hard, and it's silly to let fear of finsih work hold you back at this point in the game. Get your saw/grinder out, have a beer and go to town!

You could always PULL THE CAP...

The 1986 catalog shows what I believe is a 227 hull mid-construction. It has a full width bulkhead there so I'm thinking he already cut the side sections out. Looks like I can see part of the top of the old bulkhead on the port side as well.

 

[richie rich]

It has a full width bulkhead there so I'm thinking he already cut the side sections out. Looks like I can see part of the top of the old bulkhead on the port side as well.

Yeah, I can't tell if its full wdith or not...that would mean the stringers are not one full length front to back...or they go through the BH..on my sailfish, the bulkhead did not go gunwale to gunwale...it stopped at the fish box which was right where the stringer went...I thought it would be the same....you can get a complete grid layout drawing from Grady...they still have them...

as far as pulling the deck and helm...not so easy without manpower and some lifting equipment....Joe Z did it on his sailfish...it was a lot of work....pulling a 20 foot center console liner is much easier...this is more work for sure.......the glass is doing most of the stringer work anyway..if its too difficult, there is something to be said for leaving it.....but you still need to connect to it somehow.

Didn't you guys say grinding was fun?

 

[mac83]

Well if I have to go into the cabin then I have to. I agree, there no point on a rebuild if your not willing to get rid of all the rot. If I do have to go into the cabin, I can use the grinder to cut the layer of glass on outside of the skin ( non gel-coated side)... There's a small compartment on each side of the cabin where the main stringer runs. I'll get the rotted stringer out and then theoretically I should be able to slide the new stringer all the way up and I'll peanut butter it real good to existing skin (which has the gelcoat on the other side), then just tab it in on one side and make sure I clamp it real good. This way I won't have to regelcoat the actual cabin at all. All of the work will be inside of those small compartments. How's that sound.

I'm going to get in the cabin this weekend and see how I can do this. Give me some ideas guys. :hmm

 

[richie rich]

Mike, I don't believe the stringers going through the cabin to the bow are actually gel coated....the gelcoated liner or tub that makes up the inside of the cabin actually rests on the wooden stringer grid. The grid is self standing/supporting.......so if you cut out a stringer, you can't bed it against the tub on one side, and then just tab to the hull on the other...you will have to tab it down on both sides...the only way to do it is to cut the cabin floor. Thats why I mentioned if you can get at one side of the remianing stringer, I would leave it alone, and then you could butt up the new piece and cover the joint, like the factory did and glass it down. Otherwise, the sawzall is coming out...

 

[mac83]

So...I'm a little down today. The rot goes into both the main and outer stringer going into the cabin. So here are my choices:

I can get to (hard to do but doable) one side of each stringer that needs to be taken out. Problem is; The gelcoated part of the cabin is like a "tub" that rests on the grid <-thanks previous post and it does not go flush against the other side of the stringer, therefore, I wouldn't be able to epoxy to it....there is actually @2-3 inch gap between tabbing and the gelcoated tub.

Second option -> somehow cut the inside of the cabin (gelcoated tub section) out so I can expose the whole grid. At this point, I know pulling the cap would have been the answer but that is not an option (I dont have the resources to do so). If I measured 2 inches all the way around in the cabin and cut that part out, how hard would it be to pull that part back in. I know it would be very similar to how I am going to have to reconstruct the stern skin so I could get to the transom. I'm very anal about things looks good and I dont want some chopped up cabin/boat but it needs to be done. I just need to know where I should make my cuts.

Port side helm bulkhead

Starboard helm bulkhead

Where should I make my cuts?

Starboard cabin access to main and outside stringer

Port cabin access

Port side cabin access to stringers close up...that what appears to be a crack is actually the wire to for bilge in the cabin

:bang :bang :bang
Help me through this part guys!!!

 

[mac83]

I forgot one thing...both my stern and helm bulkhead were both cut this way I believe....does this sound right. This is what I'm thinking...GW put all four stringers down, the put the bulkheads in one piece. It looks like the cut grooves for the stringers to fit into and are pressed down until flush with stringer height. Does this make sense? I've seen where bulkheads where put down in three pieces....one piece in between the two mains , then one between both the port and main and starboard and main.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Before start cutting anything call Grady, they will be able to tell you where and how to cut. Also, they will give you some pointers as to how to remove the cut piece out in one piece.

 

[richie rich]

I'm surprised the outer stringers going forward are shot as they are so high up above the keel near the chine....in any case, they normally end just a foot or two past the stairs, so you should be able to get to them from the storage hatch and what you already cut out.....but you won't be able to get to the most outer skin of that part of the stringer as its alomost against the chine. You may want to remove the inner/accessable skin and the bad core and leave the outer skin...but you will have to grind/sand this as prep for bonding your new wood.....you'll have to clamp or screw with washers to bond the new wood, then add brand new tabbing for the inside.

As far as the inner core, go with the less destructive way first and take off one side of the stringer skin that you have access to......see how much room you really have to work with once you do that....if you find you can't get at it properly, then you can always cut the tub in the cabin area...no sense in cutting it all up before you know for sure.

The bulkheads and stringers were pre cut to interlock 50/50...but it doesnt matter as you can do stringers first then bulkheads second....just use good epoxy fillets in the corners and it will be better than new...the rot spread so fast originally because all the wood was interlocked from the factory without any of the end grain sealed, it was just all glassed on the outside of the whole structure.....so one bad stringer could infect the entire grid over time.....by putting them in seperate and using epoxy fillets, you block the spread of moisture at each intersection...and it will be plenty strong.

 

[mac83]

I'm waiting on my reply from GW...if I could get to everything without cutting the tub? I'm still confused on how I'm going to get any pressure against the backside of the main stringers ( side that is against the tub)... This is if I don't cut the tub.

 

[mac83]

I know the boat a couple broken thru-hulls which led to water soaking in the foam and against the stringers for a very long time...I don't believe that the boat was stored properly either...I know the boat sat for at least 10 years....I just looked through all of my pictures again because I really don't want to cut the cabin but I just don't know any other way to do it. Aghhh. :-|

How hard will it be for me to get the cabin to look like I never made a cut if I cut the whole thing out in one cut. I know it will involve a lot of fairing and sanding....can someone give me the rundown on that process? Thanks y'all.

 

[richie rich]

The part of tub that goes up and over the stringer is about an inch or so from the stringer itself.....you want to make the cut far enough past the stringer to allow you room for grinding and glassing, but, you want it close enough to the stringer so that you can lay the tub back on top and have the joint rest on top of the stringer...not in mid air.......when you install the new stringer, you should cut it shorter than normal, then add wooden cleats to each side of the stringer to make a "T" which will give you plenty of surface area to support the tub and the joint you cut and it will help adjust to the correct height even if your stringers are off a little. If the joint lands on the T, it won't flex later on and then filling and fairing the cut line will be more stable. To fair the joint, I would epoxy the tub back down onto the cleat with thickened mixture and some SS screws......but then on the top or money side, I would add in a layer or narrow width cloth, just like taping a sheetrock joint, using polyester or VE resin, then fill/fair the remaining seam with 3M VE Premium filler, not epoxy...then gel coat over the top of that....matching gel coat isnt easy, but because its inside, it wont be too faded, so the stock GW gelcoat color will be a close match......or you can use epoxy for the whole repair and fair and then use a good paint like Perfection to finish the job.

 

[BobP]

Mike, there is another bulkhead at V berth crossover at the bow, is that shot too?

How far forward of beginning of cabin are main stringers bad? Check via V berth storage area openings. Grind off some glass at the bottom (tabs) and ice pick wood, should not penetrate.

Is there enough room for you to stand in the floor hatch opening (standing on hull) if the pump was out of there?

Is the cabin floor cored?

If you cut a horizontal line all around on the vertical face, 3 inches above the top of V berth, and took out the cabin bullkheads at entrance, is there enough height to get liner lifted out in one piece? Measure depth of liner vs. gap with cabin bulkheads gone. If not it may hav eto come out in two or more pieces.

When it comes to fairing it's like taping and sheetrock, may have to hire out fairing if you want it to look like it was never cut out of there, if not good at it yourself.

 

[richie rich]

Bob, the cabin floor is just like the deck..cored with the wood blocks.....if he took the exposed skin off the main stringer that you can access from the storage openings below, you may be able to bed new plywood to the other remaining skin, just like you would do a transom core...one side skin off and bed core with thickened resin to the other remaining skin, then cover the exposed side with new tabbing and full glass. You bond the new core using either thru bolts and 2x4 strips as clamps or lots self tapping screws with washers....otherwise, you have to cut the floor.