sailfish 252 fuel burn twin 225 ficht 2000's

[jimmy's marine service]

well...

Jimmy, you told us you opinion on this topic, and I have stated only facts. My boat had been insured with two different AAA rated insurance carriers, and I don't think that either of them just flipped a coin to decide if they should insure a '93 Sailfish with twin 225's. More likely, they contacted Grady White, and got something from them (even an email) that indicated that the particular make, model and year would be safe power with those engines. You said it, and it's true, that insurance companies don't like paying out claims, so why the hell would they insure the boat unless the inderwriter was told that it would be safe (with those engines), to do so.

i just called grady white customer relations,i asked them this very question...wanna guess what the answer was ???? why don't you call them and ask...
next call i make is to a few insurance companies,i'll post their answer too...

 

[GWcpa]

LOL..

Jimmy: "Hello, Grady white? Is it ok to overpower a 1993 252G?"
GW Customer service: "Uh, no."
Jimmy: "ok, I knew I was right, bye!"

I thought you were done with this, then the current and previous owner go and post facts about a specific boat? Yeah, I hate it when facts get in my way also.

Why don't you go pull your watercraft policy and quote where it states your inland marine is void if the covered vessel has power exceeding the placard? If it isn't in the policy, it is not enforceable.

How come you never mentioned your concerns before with all of the previous posts and pictures GW204 has made about this boat, prior to listing it for sale?

As you would say to others discussing boats, I'm interested in hearing about your underwriting qualifications. CPCU, maybe?

 

[BobP]

What warranty is on the 1990 and 1993 Sailfish models? How do I get in on that? I have no warranty from Grady on my 1992, zippo.

Anytime someone modifies a manufacturer's product, the warranty if one is still is in force, is null and void, unless the manuf. states otherwise in writing.

Same for cars, bicycles, toasters, and anything else.

The owner then becomes responsible for warranty liability not the manuf. -he can get an easy out.

Now, in terms of going over 400HP w/o a warranty, the plantiff's expert will have to prove the cause of the claim is due to the 50HP, insurance or no insurance.
He's going to be working smoke and mirrors to do it, even if he calls Grady to testify on the boat's design. The OMC 200s and 225HP are the same weight, so more weight doesn't hold water (no pun intended)

On the other hand, if there were tripple 200s back there for 600 HP instead of 400HP, better settle out of court!

This is a night and day comparison.
I love it, for 50HP on a 6000 lb boat, making mountains out of mole hills.

 

[B-Faithful]

Mountain out of a mole hill is right.

gw204's boat was bought, financed, and insured with the 225's already on there. All had the serial numbers and model numbers to what power was going on the boat. Lets face it the current version of the boat is rated to 500hp. Having been on Brian's boat, I cannot see how twin 200's would be much difference in the performance, handling, wear and tear, etc of the boat. What is gained by going to the 225s is possibly better fuel economy at cruise and maybe 2 mph at the top end. The 225's are just better tuned 200's.

 

[Gman25]

My 05 Marlin is rated for a max 600 HP. I wonder what modification Grady did to the Marlin to be able to handle the twin F350's they now offer for this boat?

 

[Capt Bill]

When I repowered that boat in 1998, if I wanted fuel-injected Yamahas instead of carburators, (and I did), I had no choice, as 200 hp fuel injected Yammies were not out yet. I was initially concerned with the additional hp, but the Grady/Yammie dealer in O.C. who did the re-power told me that this boat was fine with those engines. Not to take the dealers word, I called my insurance company, giving them all the specifics.

They got back to me several days later and said it was ok. The insurance policy was updated with the engine make, model, s/n and hp on my policy. I wasn't going to do it if there would be any problems with Grady or the insurance company saying no. I certainly wasn't going to hang $28,000's in new engines on my boat without them, and me, being insured.

Jimmy just has to be right about everything, and always has to have the last word. Even to the point trying to convince himself and this board what took place between me and my insurance company, or Brian, and his. I have a business to run; I am done with this already.

 

[BobP]

GMAN25

Bill Lieblien (probably spelled his name wrong) of POE fame at the show when I said what's the transom is heavier?, said they had to change the layup schedule so there's more glass involved too (same for the other models).

MegaB may have more on it.

 

[johngw]

This is just another post that Jimmy has drug thru the mud. Nothing new for him. Just antoher know it all. He does not realize how much damage it does to his business. Best thing he can do is stay off the keyboard.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I will start by saying that we would never overpower a boat during a repower. That is a big no, no for a repower center. Infact anyone that service for the overpowered boat becomes at fault if anything happens. That said you may have a problem getting service. As stated above you may want to call you state about how they deal with boats without plates. You may just want to remove the plate and apply for a new one.

As stated above the engines should be fine. If you post the model and serial numbers I can be sure they are up to date with any recalls.

 

[gradyfish22]

Truth came out!!!! Dealer stated it is ...ok.... NOT Grady White!!!! Big difference. Like Jimmy stated, you guys can do what you want but it is just not wise. Think about the added torque on the transom from the ponies....it probably is at its max factor of safety between the added weight and torque. Sure you can baby the boat and it will last and be problem free but when someone really puts those engines to the test problems will arise. It is ok Jimmy, with jobs like this it will keep you in business.....just more repairs for you and others out there who are dedicated like you. Oh...and I guess all my calcs I do on boat designs mean NOTHING!!!! Think again...do what you want with your boats you may not have problems now but it is a lot worse then you think. I know how boats are designed and how hp ratings are chosen and why. All I know is if I got hurt on that boat knowing it was not designed for that HP I would sue the owner dry. I guarantee the insurance will not cover all of it, they may say they do but I'm sure there is small print, or they will just claim they never knew it was overpowered nobody told them and void your coverage... Anyone on your boat is your liability and with a boat being overpowered, even if insured, it is a losing fight.

 

[jimmy's marine service]

waiting for the rest of the info...

still waiting for the rest of the ins co information...
i'll say this,if you guys doubt me,call grady white customer service,tell them what you plan...be sure to ask them about a replacement plate with more hp rating on it...then tell me exactly what they told you...

 

[Grog]

So this started out as sailfish 252 fuel burn twin 225 ficht 2000's?

The 93 252 Sailfish has the same basic hull as the 272 but the bolted on bracket was integrated into the hull and the 272 was rated for 225's. I'm sure GW has a big enough safety factor where a SOLID hull and transom will be able to handle the additional HP. I'm sure Jimmy will agree that some will not keep their boat in top structural condition so the manufacturer has to take that into consideration so people don't tear off their transoms. What was the bracket rated for? Current designs are rated for 500 HP but the old ones probably weren't.

Now for insurance, if the HP was disclosed and can be proved it was disclosed, they have to pay for any liabilities listed in the policy. Although getting insurance in the future will be very tough, by anybody (basically black-balled).

If only the GW dealer not the manufacter gave the power it's blessing, it doesn't mean squat.

 

[BobP]

more mountains from mole hills - so it goes - ??
Guys running singles on Gradys with nameplate maxed at 225, 250, or 300 HP who also have 15 or 25 Hp kickers - better get those kickers the heck off, otherwise warranty goes down the deck drain too and no insurance coverage, why ? OVER MAX HP RATING.

reality -
No one at Grady in their right mind including Kris and Eddie are ever going to be caught dead testifing at the deposition implying the 50 HP extra on the twin 400 HP 90-93 Sailfish, or likewise any kicker pushing the limit beyond the MAX NAMEPLATE HP RATING is responsible for any personal injury, propery damage, loss of income, and whatever else the brilliant ambulance chasers can dream up.


What was this thread originally about (?).

 

[jimmy's marine service]

oh well....

This is just another post that Jimmy has drug thru the mud. Nothing new for him. Just antoher know it all. He does not realize how much damage it does to his business. Best thing he can do is stay off the keyboard.

well john,you see,i post facts and my experience-i don't deal in "guess work",i see things black and white...i'm certainly not a know it all,however,i WILL go as far as possible to prove i'm right...
and "hurt my buisness"??? interesting,i'm booked for the offseason,wonder why ??? i guess it's the fact i'm a know it all and i do piss poor work,right?? do me a favor there big guy,what ever you have to say,keep it to yourself,i've probably forgotten more than you will ever know...how's that ???

if ANY of you guys doubt me,feel free to call the phone numbers i posted...

i called a few insurance companies,i just got word back from 2...so...i stopped working,and ran over to the house just to post theses...
1st call was to "MC Mahon agencey",located in ocean city nj,phone number is 609-399-0060,the gentleman i spoke to was mike,he advised me the underwriting department has determined the boat is UNINSURABLE,due to the fact the max reccomended hp has been exceeded...again,if you doubt me,feel free to call the number...
2nd call was to "boat us",phone number 877-476-7630
got a call this morning,after filling out a quote request yesterday,the coverage was DECLINED,due to the fact the boat has been OVER POWERED,this was the decision from their underwriting department...i'm waiting for a few others to get back to me,and believe me,as soon as they do,i WILL post the result...

i'm not trying to bust anybody's balls,i even got a pm from brian,gw204...i'm pointing out something,it's called "common sense",and by some of the responses,i see alot of you guys don't tend to follow it...i have no hidden agenda,and i wasn't aware of the fact brian had twin 225's on his rig,to be honest,as usual,if i had known that,i would've stated something sooner...exceeding the mfg's hp rating is probably one of the dumbest things you can do,as i shown,it's difficult,if not impossible to get the boat insured,the mfg WILL NOT sign off on an overpowered boat....the dealer,or repair facility,who installed the engines is also at fault,it's a real bad situation...and AGAIN,if you guys doubt me,then make a few calls,see what answers you get....

"grady fish 22",here's a guy who's in the buisness,reread what he has too say..."barnacle bill",he's barnacle bill's marine supply,a bombardier dealership owner,and certified master tech,reread what he posted,these guys as well as myself have it correct,YOU CAN NOT EXCEED MFG'S RECCOMENDED HP....IF YOU DO,YOU'RE OPENING YOURSELF UP TO BIG PROBLEMS !!!!

 

[Brad1]

A concern I would have about putting more HP on the transom than the boat is rated for would be resale. Although the current boat owner's insurance company might indeed insure the boat, what if the prospective buyer's insurance company wouldn't? Say for instance the boat was surveyed and the surveyor's report indicated the boat was overpowered. Would the purchaser's insurance company be willing to cover it? I don't know. But that concern would prevent me from buying a boat that was overpowered, or putting more power on a hull than it was rated for.

 

[B-Faithful]

Re: oh well....

i'm not trying to bust anybody's balls,i even got a pm from brian,gw204...i'm pointing out something,it's called "common sense",and by some of the responses,i see alot of you guys don't tend to follow it...

Common Sense..

Lets look at Capt Bill's post regarding the repower. His options were carbed 200's or efi 225's. Both engines are of similar weight. Obviously the hp is slightly more but not like it is ridiculous more. His intentions with the boat were not to gain max speed at WOT and running hard. By going with the 225's the boat will start easier, be more fuel efficient, and run smoother especially at idle due to the efi. I have fished this boat twice (once just recently) and it slow trolled at idle all day without even a sneeze before pushing right back up to cruise. I know from having carbed outboards in the past that they would not have taken kindly to a full day at idle. So lets look at common sense. What motors would you spend over 20+grand on for this boat? I would have made the same decision. His insurance and loan company didnt have issue with it. Considering that 4 strokes are too heavy for this hull and the complexity of the HPDI's the ox66's are probably the best power option for the boat even today.

As far as the guys who say they would sue the pants off of someone who over powered in the event of an accident. I believe you would do the same if the person was negligent in operation with twin 200's too. There are car guys who sup up their cars. Heck guys who put intakes and exhausts on their trucks are increasing the hp against the manufacturer... Diesel guys easily add over 100hp with a chip, exhaust and intake. Again, the manufacturer has a recommended max hp. It is not the law that you cannot exceed it.

 

[jimmy's marine service]

Re: oh well....

i'm not trying to bust anybody's balls,i even got a pm from brian,gw204...i'm pointing out something,it's called "common sense",and by some of the responses,i see alot of you guys don't tend to follow it...

Common Sense..

Lets look at Capt Bill's post regarding the repower. His options were carbed 200's or efi 225's. Both engines are of the same weight. Obviously the hp is slightly more but not like it is ridiculous more. His intentions with the boat were not to gain max speed at WOT and running hard. By going with the 225's the boat will start easier, be more fuel efficient, and run smoother especially at idle due to the efi. I have fished this boat twice (once just recently) and it slow trolled at idle all day without even a sneeze before pushing right back up to cruise. I know from having carbed outboards in the past that they would not have taken kindly to a full day at idle. So lets look at common sense. What motors would you spend over 20+grand on for this boat? I would have made the same decision. His insurance and loan company didnt have issue with it. Considering that 4 strokes are too heavy for this hull and the complexity of the HPDI's the ox66's are probably the best power option for the boat even today.

As far as the guys who say they would sue the pants off of someone who over powered in the event of an accident. I believe you would do the same if the person was negligent in operation with twin 200's too. There are car guys who sup up their cars. Heck guys who put intakes and exhausts on their trucks are increasing the hp against the manufacturer... Diesel guys easily add over 100hp with a chip, exhaust and intake. Again, the manufacturer has a recommended max hp. It is not the law that you cannot exceed it.

did you call gw ?? if you didn't then why didn't you ??? fair question right ?? ask them why that boat carrys a 400hp max rating,ask them if they would claim liability if that number was exceeded...ask them why the boat doesn't carry a 450hp rating,or better yet,how about a 600hp rating,did you think about that ???
now,here's another question,did you call any insurance companies ???
the problem here is simple,the boat carrys a max horsepower rating,exceeding that number is wrong and it's not reccomended,ask the mfg why...if that number is exceeded,the boat is just about uninsurable...sorry guys...this is how it goes....
this is why i stated,"call grady white and ask them what they think"

 

[Anonymous]

Yes.

 

[Grog]

One odd thing is the 1994 Dolphin is rated for 450 HP where the 1993 is rated for 400, and the hull weights are the listed the same. For some reason, the Dolphin wasn't changed like the Sailfish that year and retained the bracket instead of the eurotransom. The Sailfish and Dolphin had the same hull until 1994 so one can ask GW what prompted the change in rated HP.

The nameplate still says 400 but at least you can make a fair arguement for a 450 HP nameplate.

 

[B-Faithful]

I guess eveyone here drives exactly the speed limit on the highway. Just remember the next time you are doing 55mph in a 50mph zone that the sign says you cannot go over 50 :shock: :lol: Remember you are negligent when you go over the speed limit and if you are in an accident someone is waiting to sue you for even more :wink: How dare you go against what the govt has set as a safe speed to travel.... You shouldnt even be given an auto insurance policy if you have had a speeding ticket.

You guys are comical.

Give me the EFI 225's over the Carbed 200's at similar weights regardless of what is on the sign. I am not going to be running and gunning a Grady 8)

(too bad some here need to obey all rules and signs to be safe.. Please just make sure you stay in the right lane on the highway :lol: )