Steering is Stiff

[DennisG01]

My experience with hydraulic steering, other than this 250HP 2-Stroke on my 24' Offshore, is with smaller engines. So I don't have a good "base" as to whether or not the "stiffness" of my steering is normal. At higher speeds (up on plane, etc), I can NOT steer it without using two hands. I have a power knob and can "sort of" do it with one hand, but it's quite difficult.

For those of you with standard hydraulic steering, can you (relatively) comfortably steer with one hand when on plane?

I can steer with one hand at slow speeds - but it's still stiffer than I think it should be... at least compared to a 192 with a 150HP.

I've gone down all the roads I know of to eliminate trouble spots... everything on the engine moves freely and I've flushed and bled the system (which did help a little bit).

What I'm ultimately wondering is whether a replacement hydraulic system (full system replacement) will be good enough... or do I "need" (which is different than "want"!) to add power assist.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

2004 Grady White 228 Seafarer with a Yamaha F225 and SeaStar hydraulic steering unit on it... at any speed, I can use the steering knob to turn the boat into a very sharp turn using one hand with extreme ease. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could use a finger or two and do the same thing at speed as well.

 

[Coastboater]

I had a Sea Hunt with F250 and regular Sea Star hydraulic steering that over 4,000 rpm took some effort to steer to port and would easily steer to starboard. I chalked it up to prop steer and lived with it. I did try moving the lower unit anode fin around and it helped a bit, but it still took some effort.
When I ordered my 215 with a F250 the dealer originally quoted the hydraulic assist pump. Iirc, it was ~$3k and would be installed in the console under the helm. I ended up applying that cost to upgrading to DES, so don’t have direct experience with that system, but my dealer uses it, or used to, on models 250hp and up.

 

[DennisG01]

2004 Grady White 228 Seafarer with a Yamaha F225 and SeaStar hydraulic steering unit on it... at any speed, I can use the steering knob to turn the boat into a very sharp turn using one hand with extreme ease. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could use a finger or two and do the same thing at speed as well.

And you definitely do NOT have the power assist motor? That sounds too easy without power assist!

 

[DennisG01]

I had a Sea Hunt with F250 and regular Sea Star hydraulic steering that over 4,000 rpm took some effort to steer to port and would easily steer to starboard. I chalked it up to prop steer and lived with it. I did try moving the lower unit anode fin around and it helped a bit, but it still took some effort.
When I ordered my 215 with a F250 the dealer originally quoted the hydraulic assist pump. Iirc, it was ~$3k and would be installed in the console under the helm. I ended up applying that cost to upgrading to DES, so don’t have direct experience with that system, but my dealer uses it, or used to, on models 250hp and up.

I have a difference between port/stbd (due to prop walk as you said) and would naturally expect that... but both ways are extremely hard.

How is your 215 with normal hydraulic steering?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

And you definitely do NOT have the power assist motor? That sounds too easy without power assist!

No idea what that is, but probably not as my motor is 20 years old now. That being said, I can also bench press 500 lbs, which I'm guessing the average person cannot do. So, I'm going to assume it's likely a bit of an apples to oranges comparison in that regard.

 

[Chessie246G]

24 Explorer. 250hp 2 stroke Yahama. Seastar hydro steering. Can turn at any speed with 1 or 2 fingers.

 

[seasick]

A significant difference in steering force between turns to starboard or to port on a single engine application can be a symptom of a mis adjusted trim anode on the lower unit.
Alos if you hydraulic cylinder is a single ended model ( One end of the cylinder has a rod that moves in and out but the other end doesn't) steering will always take a little more effort turning to one particular side. In your case, this phenomenon would not explain you case.

 

[DennisG01]

24 Explorer. 250hp 2 stroke Yahama. Seastar hydro steering. Can turn at any speed with 1 or 2 fingers.

Do you know if you do/do not have a power assist?

 

[Coastboater]

I have a difference between port/stbd (due to prop walk as you said) and would naturally expect that... but both ways are extremely hard.

How is your 215 with normal hydraulic steering?

Instead of adding the hydraulic steering boost pump the dealer quoted initially, I opted to upgrade the engine to digital electronic steering, so no hydraulic steering.
Hard to steer both directions indicates a different problem than prop torque in only one direction. Perhaps unhook the motor from the steering ram and make sure it turns easily and isn’t binding, then depending on results of that dig in to the steering system if the motor isn’t binding.

 

[Sauza45]

My old boat was a Boston Whaler with a merc 250 hydraulic power steering one time out the power assist pump died and it made it very hard to turn,
Needed both hands are you sure you don’t have power assist? Has it always been hard to steer or is this new and has anything changed

 

[DennisG01]

Instead of adding the hydraulic steering boost pump the dealer quoted initially, I opted to upgrade the engine to digital electronic steering, so no hydraulic steering.
Hard to steer both directions indicates a different problem than prop torque in only one direction. Perhaps unhook the motor from the steering ram and make sure it turns easily and isn’t binding, then depending on results of that dig in to the steering system if the motor isn’t binding.

Oh, OK, so you don't have standard hydraulic - OK, that makes sense why it's so easy for you.

 

[DennisG01]

My old boat was a Boston Whaler with a merc 250 hydraulic power steering one time out the power assist pump died and it made it very hard to turn,
Needed both hands are you sure you don’t have power assist? Has it always been hard to steer or is this new and has anything changed

No power assist. Thank you.

EDIT: Oh, yes, it has gotten progressively harder over the last 5 or so years.

 

[Sardinia306Canyon]

For those of you with standard hydraulic steering, can you (relatively) comfortably steer with one hand when on plane?

Yes, i always could steer with one hand on all my boats between 23 and 34 ft with either singles or twins, twins always with two pistons plus tie bar.
Now i have a AP so the servo pump makes turning (too) easy.

As you have a 2000 engine my first guess that the steering tube on the outboard is stiff,
to check that disconnect the hydraulic steering assembly by the bolt what connect the triangle shaped bracket to the engine and turn the engine by hand.
From when is you hydraulic steering, helm pump and piston and what models?

Chris

 

[DennisG01]

Hi Chris - everything on the engine side of things is good. I never really thought that anything in the helm or cables could "wear out"?

But what you're saying makes me feel good about NOT needing to step up to power assist should I replace the system.

It's an old Hynautic setup This is an older picture, but when I bled the system last year I checked/grease everything on the engine side - but all was good on the engine side to start with.

 

[SkunkBoat]

edit: I wrote all this and got distracted before posting and then you posted the above and then I hit post before seeing it and now it is irrelevant....



When you are not moving, can you turn the wheel with one finger?
Have you disconnected the motor from the steering and verified that you can turn the motor by hand VERY VERY easily?
When disconnected, does the steering cylinder go stop to stop VERY easily when turning the wheel?
Have you checked the seastar chart to verify your seastar model helm and cylinder are adequate for a 250?
You didn't mention if you have AP.

I have 2020 twin 200s with one 5345 cylinder and a tie bar and a classic 1.7 helm. The only time I need two hands is when I'm hard over and want to go the other way.
I have a new pump after trying to replace seals myself see https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/seastar-hydraulic-steering.25895/
I also now have a new cylinder. The old one was allowing fliud pressure to pass from side to side(symptoms- motors fall over when in up position, some lost motion when turning from straight ahead)
On my old OX66s the "swivel" bracket was tight due to 20yo dried grease buildup. I had to drill a hole near the top bearing and spray in WD40 until it freed up. Then installled a Zerk there.

 

[Sardinia306Canyon]

Hi Chris - everything on the engine side of things is good. I never really thought that anything in the helm or cables could "wear out"?

When you can turn the engine easily by hand, very very easily as SkunkBoat wrote then the steering tube is probably fine, except she bind under the pressure pushing lower unit backwards when underway. About two months i went to the shipyard of my friend and helped his son to free stuck steering, so stuck that boat owner broke the cable steering hub. As Skunkboat wrote, it was the same problem, old old grease became hard and built a plug what not let fresh grease passing thru. I suggested to not use WD40 as it will stay inside and "liquify" first the old abut then continue with the fresh grease and we used a heat gun to heat up the vertical steering tube to soften the old grease plug till we could inject fresh grease and make it squeeze out down and up, first the old and then the fresh grease. However, WD40, CRC or similar works as well.

Yes, the hydraulic pump or piston can wear out, but usually the leak internally so you would need more turns as before and thats not your case.

First thing i would check is if engine turns free if disconnected from the hydraulic piston, then and in any case use the grease gun and pump grease so long till it squeezes out on both ends of the vertical tube, if it squeezes out only on top or bottom the there is a grease plug somewhere and you need to eliminate it, with heat or WD40.

Last and most expensive option if engine turns freely and there is no pay pulling the lower unit backwards then i would bite the bullet and buy a new helm pump and piston, and probably the hoses as well, or rebuild it but that can get pricy.

If turning in one direction is considerable stiffer then check the anode with the directional fin above the prop if she is pointing correctly and/or turn her a bit more to lower steering force by the prop.

Chris

 

[seasick]

One simple question. Do you know if whoever serviced your motor ever added new grease to the fitting on the steering tube (the place where the motor can turn.

 

[DennisG01]

Side question...

Gentleman... this question is NOT meant as sarcastic or unappreciative... far from it. It's more about how "I" wrote my questions and why it seems there are follow up questions when I had already wrote the answer. Again, this is more about "what is it about how I wrote my question that isn't clear"? I realize that sometimes things make sense in a poster's head - but how a reader perceives that info may be different.

In my first post, and subsequently as well, I mentioned that everything on the engine side of things moves freely. But a number of times I have been asked about trying to move the engine with it disconnected from the steering cylinder. That's the part that has spurred my question, here.

 

[DennisG01]

Skunk, no problem! Thanks for the re-post! No, I cannot turn the wheel with one finger standing still. Well, "sort of", but it's very hard. Compared to my mother's 192 w/150HP - it's vastly different. No, I don't have an AP.

Chris/Seasick, yes, I have greased it - and I do grease it till I see fresh grease come out top and bottom.