Update: Leak in Head Discharge Line. West Marine Recommends Replacement with More Flexible Line

[wahoo33417]

Italian: Sure, I'll be happy to share trials, tribulations and costs. Costs when I do it and then costs when I call in the professionals .

 

[Mike Damas]

So, as others have suggested, the vented loop for the toilet discharge line is fairly easy to get to. As was suggested, remove the starboard side panel in the aft berth and look towards the bow. Can't miss it.

Turns out, my leak wasn't in the 'duck bill' in the vent cap, although I did remove that for cleaning. Instead there is a small crack in the hose as it makes it's turn towards the head. After removing the clamp, I tried removing the hose from the plastic vent tube. I could easily turn it, but I couldn't easily pull it off. I believe if I put two hands on it and pull down and twist with some force, it will come off. I also believe that I will also then break, ruin, damage some of the many other wires and little hoses that run beneath this connection point. And likely plant my face into some fiberglass splinters as well.

So I'll get a new hose and come back with some small tools that will allow me to carefully cut this old hose into some smaller sections to make for easier removal.

Also, I carry this super stretchy tape that only sticks to itself that is advertised to be perfect for situations like this. Even for radiator hoses. So what the heck, I put a few wraps around the cracked hose and (temporarily) no more leak!

Also, just FYI, another vented loop just like this one but serving the overboard discharge line, is easily accessed (by a skinny teenager) from behind the aft panel in the aft berth. It too is pretty plain to see once you know what you're looking for.

The vented loop is the nearly 'U'-shaped pieced of plastic with a screw cap on top. The 1.5" toilet hose is simply clamped on. Inside the screw cap is a little 'duckbill' piece of rubber. The suction of toilet water passing through this tube forces the duckbill open and it draws in air, thereby preventing an accidental backflow situation.

So, as others have suggested, the vented loop for the toilet discharge line is fairly easy to get to. As was suggested, remove the starboard side panel in the aft berth and look towards the bow. Can't miss it.

Turns out, my leak wasn't in the 'duck bill' in the vent cap, although I did remove that for cleaning. Instead there is a small crack in the hose as it makes it's turn towards the head. After removing the clamp, I tried removing the hose from the plastic vent tube. I could easily turn it, but I couldn't easily pull it off. I believe if I put two hands on it and pull down and twist with some force, it will come off. I also believe that I will also then break, ruin, damage some of the many other wires and little hoses that run beneath this connection point. And likely plant my face into some fiberglass splinters as well.

So I'll get a new hose and come back with some small tools that will allow me to carefully cut this old hose into some smaller sections to make for easier removal.

Also, I carry this super stretchy tape that only sticks to itself that is advertised to be perfect for situations like this. Even for radiator hoses. So what the heck, I put a few wraps around the cracked hose and (temporarily) no more leak!

Also, just FYI, another vented loop just like this one but serving the overboard discharge line, is easily accessed (by a skinny teenager) from behind the aft panel in the aft berth. It too is pretty plain to see once you know what you're looking for.

The vented loop is the nearly 'U'-shaped pieced of plastic with a screw cap on top. The 1.5" toilet hose is simply clamped on. Inside the screw cap is a little 'duckbill' piece of rubber. The suction of toilet water passing through this tube forces the duckbill open and it draws in air, thereby preventing an accidental backflow situation.

It's prob the same as my 2002 282. I replaced the line from the toilet to the 1.5" loop this offseason. The access is via a removable panel on the stbd side of the mid-berth. Piece of cake to get to, the hose requires a little wrestling and a heat gun helped me gain a little extra pliability in the removal and re-install. This was on a frigid day in early March. These systems require regular maintenance and inspection just like any other on the boat, if not, you'll inevitably have an issue. New joker valve, make sure the vent is clear, inspect the hoses, and so forth. My line was in tough shape so that's why i replaced that one, I'll probably do the others this upcoming offseason. Those black hoses tend to dry rot and crack, only a matter of time till they leak, and if they do you would see what your seeing. Either that or you have a loose connection or a compromised duck bill, these are simple systems. You can get a new duck bill at West Marine, pretty cheap, or clean yours if it looks ok. The holding tank is behind the aft panel in the mid-berth. If your under the hood anyway you should pull off the vent line, which is accessed via the same stbd panel AND the aft panel. I had a clog in each end, and in that L shaped fitting that goes into the tank from vent line. Mud wasps love to make nests at the far end where it exits the hull.

Great to find this info! Had some trouble flushing the head today on my 2005 282 Sailfish and discovered a similar leak reported by @wahoo33417. All this info gives me a great start. Thanks!

 

[Hookup1]

Did you find the vented loop? The valve on top of it could be your problem. There is a small duckbill in it that could be smutzed up. Just replace it if you can get to it..

 

[wahoo33417]

Hookup: Yeah, this thread has gotten kinda long and and you have to look back a bit to see the pic of the vented loop. The leak was small cracks in the hose itself. But I cleaned the duckbill in warm water and vinegar anyway.

About that hose. I knew I had to cut the hose from inside the head as close to the point where it entered the wall as I could. Then I could carefully remove the shortened piece of hose from the vented loop. If I just removed the hose from the toilet and pulled through the wall, there is a good chance I would have gotten hung up on and maybe damaged one of the wires running through the area behind the wall.

Cutting that dang hose was harder than I thought! I brought a mini-hacksaw, box cutter and some shears (no tin snips). No power tools that close to the fiberglass! Hacksaw cut through the rubber part of the hose okay. But it could not cut through the reinforcing steel wire! I had to get vise-grips on the wire part and twist until it snapped. I could not have done this in the space behind the wall.

I took an unmangled piece of hose to West Marine. The guy there said that hose was overkill for hand-pumped head application. So I replaced it with the more flexible, but still wire-reinforced hose shown below.

When I got the aft berth side panel put back on, I took the rear panel off so I could take a closer look at those hoses. I wish I hadn't. I'm pretty small, so I got my face on top of the holding tank with a bright light in hand. The toilet line-in and the deck pump-out line-out show the same small but numerous cracks as the hose I just replaced. The vent line looked nearly new. The overboard discharge line looked okay, but it will be going soon anyway.

The toilet line-in is just the other half of the vented loop line. It will be more of a bear to cut and route this one, but I know I can do it. The deck pump-out line is another story. The only way to replace that line that I can see is from above deck, by removing the fitting itself. I'm not sure what sealant Grady used for that fitting, but it seems like it's in my future to find out.

Rob

 

[seasick]

In general you should use sanitation rated hose. It will state that on the hose itself. Sanitation hose should also be smooth on the inside. Your sample doesn't look smooth.
Here is an example of a hose

Poly X Sanitation Hose, Sold Per Foot | West Marine

Check out our Poly X Sanitation Hose, Sold Per Foot and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

That stuff is pricey but there are other options, less expensive that are sanitation rated. Such as

Shields #144 Super PVC Sanitation Hose

Save money at Coms! Cut to length hose, pumps, fittings and everything you need to stay on the water. Shields #144 Super PVC Sanitation Hose

comsmarine.com

 

[glacierbaze]

Another reason to use sanitation hose is odor permeation. If only used for urine, and you use a chemical in the tank, and empty often, you may get away with a substitute, but it's risky.

 

[Byram]

If you need flexible go with the raritan sani flex. super tight radius allowed . Sanitation must be smooth bore

 

[wahoo33417]

Yup, the smooth bore makes sense. I questioned the West Marine guy on that and he said this was smooth enough for this application. In any case, I'm going to be spending a lot more time in there replacing longer stretches of hoses that I don't want to have an unseen problem with. So I'll get one of the hoses recommended here. And it will be easy enough to replace the one I just did.

Thanks to each of you, Seasick, Glacier, Bryam and Hookup for your recommendations and for educating me.

In a way, I was quite fortunate. The first hose to leak developed that leak in a place that just happened to run right back into the head. There are a lot of other hoses and places that could have leaked until the smell drove us out of the cabin!

Rob

 

[seasick]

Good thinking.
One hint, maybe. If you are planning on replaces several runs, do an inventory and length estimate of each size and type (fuel, bilge, fresh water, sanitation, etc). Group similar requirements together and maybe you cab buy hose in bulk. It may be less expensive but more importantly, you can replace lines without having to measure the old length exactly. In addition ordering 25 feet of hose for a 12 foot length leaves 13 for another job as opposed to ordering 13 feet and having a one foot cutoff which generally serves no purpose other than to take up storage room in your garage

 

[garyroe]

The hose was fairly rigid, but I found that it would bend to where I needed it reasonably easily. With a little bit of mild soap on the inside of the ends, I found the slip right on the connections. I used a hacksaw to cut the rubber pipe, and a Dremel tool with that diamond blade to cut the stainless steel wire that is wound around inside. I have a lot of confidence that this Trident marine sanitation hose will not let you down.

 

[wahoo33417]

I did replace the hoses with one of the hoses recommended here and that West Marine carried. Less of a job because I only needed to replace hoses from head to tank and tank to deck pump-out. The overboard discharge seacock became the raw water source for the AC. There was one bend, going up to the vent, that was a bear. That was the same bend that developed the leak in the first place. But now that I know where this bend is, it is easy enough to keep an eye on. Although the new line should, hopefully, last another 15 years.