Windlass - opinions please

[SkunkBoat]

Yes, see that's what I'm thinking. Helping to boat a sword...fantastic!
Also I was thinking if I ever do get around to double anchoring it would work both anchors.
Definitely leaning hard in that direction.

 

[glacierbaze]

Takes two hands to tail the line off the capstan, and windlass switches are momentary, for good reason. How much of this are you doing solo?
I bought a new Lewmar windlass on CL a few months ago, but haven't looked at it since. It has the gypsy on one side, and the capstan on the other. I am hoping that the capstan will haul a second line, independent of the gypsy.

 

[eppem]

Same unit on my 265 as DrBatts - 16 years young and no issues.

 

[Halfhitch]

Takes two hands to tail the line off the capstan, and windlass switches are momentary, for good reason. How much of this are you doing solo?
I bought a new Lewmar windlass on CL a few months ago, but haven't looked at it since. It has the gypsy on one side, and the capstan on the other. I am hoping that the capstan will haul a second line, independent of the gypsy.

One of the cool things about a capstan is the fact that it stops pulling or taking line if the operator quits applying tension on the tail. The capstan just spins inside the wraps till the tail is pulled on, unlike a windlass that takes line anytime it is turned on. This is the type of switch I mounted to control the power to the capstan https://www.amazon.com/BEP-701-Batt...700195&sr=8-9&keywords=battery+cut+off+switch

 

[DennisG01]

To make controlling a windlass easier for one person, installing foot switches at the bow is pretty simple. They are basically just wired in parallel with the dash switch.

As an example, this is the windlass I installed on my Sundancer:

 

[SkunkBoat]

One of the cool things about a capstan is the fact that it stops pulling or taking line if the operator quits applying tension on the tail. The capstan just spins inside the wraps till the tail is pulled on, unlike a windlass that takes line anytime it is turned on. This is the type of switch I mounted to control the power to the capstan https://www.amazon.com/BEP-701-Batt...700195&sr=8-9&keywords=battery+cut+off+switch

Yep, just loosen the line and it slips....except maybe when the anchor is aweigh...
Also, look at the video of the old man using the capstan that I posted earlier. He kneels on the switch. and you only need one switch for a capstan

 

[Halfhitch]

If your anchor wants to continue once aweigh without you applying a bit of tension on the tail then you have too many wraps. Just throw one off.

 

[SkunkBoat]

So its been more than a year since I started this and I went nowhere yet. Usually takes me a couple years of thinking/dreaming.....

Leaning hard towards the AnchorMax Capstan. $615 on HodgesMarine.com. Mounted on the pulpit in front of the anchor locker hatch.
No changes to the hatch...just feed the rode in, basically sitting in the same way I do when hauling and stowing manually now.

So its max 80Amps. So with a home run to the batteries its maybe 30 feet x 2.... 10% drop leaves me at 4 AWG wire.

What do you guys with 26 -28 footers have?

Seems like a poor use of all that wire for such an infrequent use. Has anyone run half of it parallel to the House bus panel and then switched the remainder to the winch?
In other words, use it to double the House feed wire and then use a mini battery switch to shift it to the winch when I need it. I would have to work out the Circuit Breaker situation.
So I'm thinking I reduce the voltage drop on all of my panel fed electronics and lights and pumps for all the time I'm not using the capstan.
Opinions please...

 

[glacierbaze]

A couple of things I remember about this old thread are, you were working with 600 or 800 feet of line, and second, that video you posted showed that old man bringing in 150 feet of line, one foot at a time. I that really what you want to do? I think the 600-700 series windlass most of us use, or a similar capstan, is good for up to about 75 feet, but anything more, and I would learn to use an anchor ball to float the anchor, and just haul in the line.

 

[SkunkBoat]

A couple of things I remember about this old thread are, you were working with 600 or 800 feet of line, and second, that video you posted showed that old man bringing in 150 feet of line, one foot at a time. I that really what you want to do? I think the 600-700 series windlass most of us use, or a similar capstan, is good for up to about 75 feet, but anything more, and I would learn to use an anchor ball to float the anchor, and just haul in the line.

I have an anchor ball. I used to use it on my 20 footer. After I got on top and broke the anchor free I would walk it around to a stern cleat and tow it so it could see the line and not run it over. It worked ok but I think walking it back on a 26 express will be harder. And then all the rode still has to get hauled into the locker. Usually we're 75 to 150 ft deep. So thats the vertical lift. Line out is 400-600. This capstan runs 75 ft/min. We're all over 50 now. Even the hand over hand hauling line wears on you. The thing is , if we anchored once for the day it would be one thing. The reason I want to get the capstan is so when we miss the wreck on the first drop and then swing off it in 15 minutes on the second drop, and then the wind shifts and we're off again...We all look at each other like..You or me this time?
The old man video yes its slow (and loud) but still faster than hauling by hand and...he's not breaking a sweat or using his back.

So, assuming I commit to a capstan or windlass, my question is about wire size and circuit design. Whatyagot?

 

[glacierbaze]

I run mine off the house battery, with the engine running, and use what was recommended by Lewmar, 6 if I recall correctly. Never had any heat, or breaker problems.

 

[seasick]

I cant recommend paralleling main feeds with a second cable to increase current capacity. The reason is that should one cable go bad for whatever reason, the other conductor will be undersized for the load and will be subject to overheating. You can't assume either that each conductor will carry half the load either. It depends on absolute length, connections etc ( In other words, the end to end resistance of each conductor
The best approach to power a windlass assuming the existing service is not large enough, is to run new conductors, both power and ground directly to the battery switch and battery ground. In addition, the power feed must have a breaker within 1 foot or so of the feed point.

 

[OMER]

I chose the Lofrans Dorado500 w, it is easier for me to find spare parts, Lewmar is badly imported into France.

To be able to use the two batteries interchangeably, I replaced the original 4AWG wires with marine grade 3AWG.

At the selector output, I added a second wire (3AWG) and a 50A circuit breaker.

The electromechanical relay is at the level of the helm, in addition to the switch, I added a radio remote control, Chinese thing which works perfectly for less than $ 15, the only problem is that the control box is not waterproof, but at this price it’s a very good deal.

the windlass wiring is 3AWG marine grade the entire wiring is 80 feet long (red + black)

this assembly is not very complicated, the most difficult was to dismantle the bow pulpit

 

[SkunkBoat]

<<The reason is that should one cable go bad for whatever reason, the other conductor will be undersized for the load and will be subject to overheating.>>
Assuming each has a breaker that is less than the wire's max amps, that is not an issue.

I've been playing around with circuit diagrams.
I will agree I don't like the idea of switching the use of the wire between House and Winch. Too many complications, particularly with positioning switches and circuit breakers and what happens when one is open.
So I won't be doing that....


If we are not adding a winch but just doubling the House is not a problem.
The point is not to increase capacity but to reduce the voltage drop felt at the panel.
Keeping the same 50 Amp circuit breaker, there is no danger of one wire being undersized if the other is damaged or open....in fact it prevents it.

The existing stranded wire is in fact a bundle of individual wires in parallel.
If caution is taken to tape the ends together to identify them as one, and connect them to the same terminal at each end, then they will act as one larger cable

If you have ever used the "Both" position on a battery switch, you have put wires in parallel.

<<You can't assume either that each conductor will carry half the load either.>>
This is not an issue. The current will divide based on the resistance of the wires. The total resistance of the wires in parallel will be less than the lowest of them individually.
This is what we are after because there will be less voltage dropped across the wire as a percentage of the voltage at our panel.


But of course, I went off topic because this is about feeding the winch/capstan...SORRY!

I'll have to measure the actual distance on the 265. I'd like to use 6/2 duplex if I can rather than separate red/black 4awg. I don't think they make 4/2

 

[SAABseanSCANIA]

I chose the Lofrans Dorado500 w, it is easier for me to find spare parts, Lewmar is badly imported into France.

To be able to use the two batteries interchangeably, I replaced the original 4AWG wires with marine grade 3AWG.

At the selector output, I added a second wire (3AWG) and a 50A circuit breaker.

The electromechanical relay is at the level of the helm, in addition to the switch, I added a radio remote control, Chinese thing which works perfectly for less than $ 15, the only problem is that the control box is not waterproof, but at this price it’s a very good deal.

the windlass wiring is 3AWG marine grade the entire wiring is 80 feet long (red + black)

this assembly is not very complicated, the most difficult was to dismantle the bow pulpit

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OMER, how is that Lofrans working out? Have you tested it yet? What rode are you using with this unit? 3-strand or 8-Plait? Rope/chain size?

I was considering that as well because I do not want to lose my chain locker access by moving a horizontal windlass aft (like I have seen others on here do).

 

[OMER]

OMER, how is that Lofrans working out? Have you tested it yet? What rode are you using with this unit? 3-strand or 8-Plait? Rope/chain size?

I was considering that as well because I do not want to lose my chain locker access by moving a horizontal windlass aft (like I have seen others on here do).

on the ground everything works well LOL.
Unfortunately, I do not have the possibility to test it at sea. All the marinas in France are closed and the pleasure boat is prohibited from going to sea, because of the Covid. And nobody knows when it will be possible to do it.
I opted for a chain of 6mm with a length of 160 feet. I don't know if the rope8 strands works with this windlass.3 it's OK.

 

[Family Tradition Fishing]

Hey Skunk, I'm not familiar with the locker on a 265 but my 300 barely fits 600' of rode and 30' chain. I have a Lewmar 700 and it does okay but you are supposed to cleat off the line anytime at anchor. If I had it to do over I would use a Good brand windlass.

Mine is mounted forward of the locker hatch and I wish it was more rear, on top of the locker hatch for a more direct drop into the locker. I have 2 rodes, one 300' and 600' 3ply. When I'm fishing and using the 600 someone always has to be on the bow pulling in the slack to the locker so it doesn't bind. I think the more rear installation and 8ply are two changes I will make when I can afford and find the time.

 

[Fowl Hooked]

The original Simpson Lawrence Horizon 500 on my 265 died last summer, it was there when I got the boat and I'm assuming was a factory installed option so it had 14 years of life on it. Not a lot of complaints, it worked when I needed it to (up until that last time) but was power up/power down, and while it seemed to have good pulling power it was somewhat slow. Motor was still good but something in the gears was binding, couldn't get the topmost gear off to get underneath and see what was happening but I'm guessing water intrusion and some corrosion over time bound things up. In any case, it came off and I ended up replacing it with a Lewmar ProFish 700 for three reasons - 1) same horizontal type as was there, 2) it has free fall which the old did not, and 3) West Marine had them at 30% off a while back and that was too good of a deal to pass up. Given the stay at home order in MD this is one more thing new to the boat that I haven't been able to use yet but I'm impressed with the build quality and finish, it's about double the size of the old 500 and feels like so much more windlass.

The original wiring, again assuming it was factory given the professional looking labeling on the wires, was 6 AWG that runs back to the 50A breaker and switch assembly at the helm. For the Simpson it was stepped down to what looked like 10 AWG, the Lewmar came rigged with 8 AWG. I'll get back on the boat and trace out the wiring from the breaker to the source, I'm guessing it's direct to the battery but I'm honestly not sure.

Installation was fairly easy. The starboard in the picture is not load bearing, windlass is through bolted through the starboard, the pulpit, and the bow; but I wanted something to 'reset' the base after I filled all the old holes as the new windlass wouldn't cover them all so the starboard serves to hide the uglies as well as provide a secondary layer of protection against water intrusion. Hardest part was reaching far enough into the anchor locker to get at the forward bolt.

 

[Fishtales]

That is a serious set up.

 

[SAABseanSCANIA]

on the ground everything works well LOL.
Unfortunately, I do not have the possibility to test it at sea. All the marinas in France are closed and the pleasure boat is prohibited from going to sea, because of the Covid. And nobody knows when it will be possible to do it.
I opted for a chain of 6mm with a length of 160 feet. I don't know if the rope8 strands works with this windlass.3 it's OK.

oh wow, all chain? I'm assuming if 3-strand works, 8-strand will be fine as well and be nicer in my locker. I don't need much as this boat is pretty much a beach hopper for us... 200' will do just fine.

I hear ya on the restriction. I'm not sure whether we will be affected yet, but some areas close to here have prohibited non-commercial vessels.... so we shall see. I can't see a better way to stay away from others than to be out on the boat. Aside from maybe walking down my dock and fueling, its as remote as being on my own property.

I was glad I found your post since I recently narrowed it down to the Lofrans Dorado/Kobra due to the design of deck penetration being at the rear of the windlass body (as opposed to being in the middle of the windlass body like a Maxwell or Lewmar of the size). This matters in this application because if mounting it as you have on the pulpit, 4" farther aft for the "chain pipe" means about 4"+ more freefall for the rode in a cramped locker.

I really only looked at Lewmar/Maxwell/Lofrans for this purchase, and prices under $1000 my cost for the unit. I looked at those specific companies because I'm in the yacht business and those are some of the names I see regularly onboard larger boats (>30M) that also make recreational models, so it's "go with what you know". I initially wanted a Maxwell due to reputation in this size range and serviceability but it's design would have had the penetration too forward for my liking. I then looked at the Lewmar Pro-Fish due to mass availability, but the feedback I've got from my supplier was that since I wasn't looking for the performance characteristics of the Profish, pass on it because they carry the lion's share of warranty claims. So that left me with having a Dorado on order. Lofrans is a big name, and I like the simple worm gear design of the Dorado/Kobra's sealed gear case, so I think it will be a winner. Maybe not as pretty as the shiny bits, but function hopefully outshines form for me. We shall see.