Sailfish 272 with waterlogged foam?

[Duncan]

Hi - I think my 1995 272 Sailfish may be waterlogged. I sat out the 2020 and 2021 seasons (shrink wrapped) due to Covid and some other issues and when I launched last year I noticed my gas mileage dropped from about 1.4 MPG to 0.9 MPG and it seemed like it might be a little sluggish. I can't really tell if it is sitting lower in the water. I did some WOT testing yesterday and my numbers went from 5800 RPM at 48 MPH (lightly loaded) 9 years ago to 5000 and 28 MPH with two guys on board. So I lost 800 RPM and 20 MPH!

The transom was replaced by a Grady dealer in 2006 and is probably wet but still solid. (I don't think the transom could hold enough water to cause this.) I removed all the plywood panels by the waste storage tank and didn't see any sign of water. I assume the main foam compartments are either side of the gas tanks - could these be wet? How can I check this? Have others had problems that sounds like mine? I also ran a snake up the two drain hoses that empty into the bilge from under the gas tanks and they were clear.

Thanks,
--Duncan

 

[Fixit]

id start with a compression test, and then a tune up.. what motors?

 

[Duncan]

It's got twin 2007 E-tec 225 HP with about 450 hours on them and 150 hours since tune up. I think the motors are fine. They are both burning the same fuel at the same RPM. Losing RPM, speed and burning more fuel is consistent with a heavier load. My buddy just pulled 1800 lbs of waterlogged foam out of his skiff and it cost him a fortune to have it fixed. He thinks that is what my problem is. I will check the compression, however, just to be sure. The boat is in the water. I don't see how to get to the foam to check it.

 

[Fixit]

Get the boat onto your trailer and weigh it. Better than guessing. My 270 has foam in a lot of places but they’re all visible through ports or by removing panels

 

[Duncan]

I don't have access to a trailer but am attempting to find a local marina with a lift that will weigh it for me.

In the mean time (assuming the compression test is good) I am thinking that I will remove the panel that covers the gas tanks and perhaps remove the smaller of the two tanks to see what I can see. All the stringers I can access have a nice bright sound when I rap them but I can't access anything in the middle of the boat.

Thanks
Duncan

 

[seasick]

Why do you suspect the transom is wet if it was replaced?
Assuming the hull is clean, I would look at these things first: before I tear apart the decks. If there is extra water weight in the hull and enough to cause the loss in top end, the hull will sit lower in the water at rest. That is to say that the water line will ride higher on the hull. Take a look at your water line and see if you can make a determination if the hull is sitting lower.
You also mention that the boat sat for two years. Your gas could have soured and/or the any gas in the motor filters/pumps could have clogged. You lost top end performance and that can be related to gas issues. You didn't say what motor you have. In any case look at fuel issues before anything else. Go from there.

As suggested, a compression test can't hurt but I would check spark first. You may have a bad/weak coil. Since you need to check spark at speed and under load, the testing is a bit more complicated than just looking for spark at idle.
Check your prop, better yet, have a prop shop check your prop. It may need a tune up or a new hub.

 

[Ekea]

has it been in the water since last year? could be growth on the hull. it would take a lot of weight to drop from 48 to 28 mph top end.

 

[DennisG01]

I would think it's not reasonable to think you have waterlogged foam. You said the boat sat for the last two years under shrink wrap. That negates the water logged theory. I also don't think there's any reason to think you have a wet transom, either.

I would, however, question your gas quality. And then I'd be looking at the engine.

 

[Duncan]

The transom was replaced in 2006 which was 17 years ago. It was done at a Grady dealer so I am hoping they used the Greenwood. I think it might be wet because it still has the aluminum angle piece on the top which I have to re-caulk every spring. I can pull one of the U-bolts to check for sure. It is definitely still solid because I can tilt the motors and stand on them without any transom movement.

The hull is clean. I drained all the fuel before storage and used it my cars. The current fuel is fresh 93 octane. The engines are E-Tecs and they run great - they both started immediately in spring of 2022 after not running since fall 2019 (due to the 2 season Covid break.) All the gas filters are new. During the WOT test they were burning 40 GPH total.

I just did a quick calculation to see how much weight it would take to lower the boat by 1". The hull has a 9.5' beam so if I approximate the hull as a 9.5' by 22' rectangle, that is an area of 9.5 x 22 = 209 feet. To get volume of water displaces by a 1 inch drop, we multiply by 1"/12' (0.0833 feet) and get 17.4 cubic feet. The density of salt water is 65 lb per cubic foot so the weight of the water displaces by a 1" drop would be 1131 lbs. I'm not sure I would notice a 1" drop. I'll take a look at the scuppers when I am down there tonight and report back.

Thanks,
Duncan

 

[DennisG01]

If you're resealing the bang cap every season, that's even less of a reason to think it's wet. When you reseal it, do notice anything that gives you concern regarding water ingress? Regardless, that isn't a factor of the issue at hand.

If you are saying you are positive that the gas is good (and the fuel system on the engine... injectors, engine filters, etc) then move on to other engine items such as doing a compression test since that's quick and easy. Check plugs/etc. - both condition and if they're firing.

But again... regarding water weight... the boat was shrink wrapped.

 

[seasick]

Since you seem to like math, why don't you do a prop slip calculation for both the old and the new data. I'm betting that the slip percentage is similar. No scientific reason, just a gut feeling

On a different factor, are you telling us that both motors top out at 5,000 revs?
Have you tried running at WOT one motor at a time to see what revs each one makes?
Also, the two guys on board weren't summo wrestlers, were they?

 

[family affair]

Have you always ran 93 octane in those engines?
I ask because not all engines like higher octane, especially if they aren't programmed to take advantage of it. 2 strokes especially can be more sensitive since the energy density of 93 is lower than 87, and it burns cooler in a 2 stroke - especially a DI engine.

 

[kirk a]

I would think it's not reasonable to think you have waterlogged foam. You said the boat sat for the last two years under shrink wrap. That negates the water logged theory. I also don't think there's any reason to think you have a wet transom, either.

I would, however, question your gas quality. And then I'd be looking at the engine.

100% agree with this. Engines don't like to sit around. Injectors or filters. I don't know what there are for filters on an etec, but this screams fuel issue to me.

As a totally unrelated data point. When my underpowered 330 is light, it only gains a couple of knots in speed compared to a heavy canyon load, which is an easy 3 or 4k pound difference. (300 gals fuel, 4 guys, 2 tackle shops worth of rods and reels, 300lbs ice, 50 gals water, food, beverage etc.)

I just don't think it is weight - UNLESS you are neglecting to remove the trailer first.

 

[Duncan]

Hi - thanks for all the thoughts. I would love for this to not be waterlogged foam! I just completed a compression test and it looks good. I’m getting:
Starboard Port
120. 126. 120. 126
120. 126. 120. 125
120 126. 120. 128
It has kind of an odd symmetry but looks good. The plugs looked okay.
Both motors topped out at 5k when I did the WOT test. I didn’t try them one-at-a-time but did confirm that they are burning the same amount of fuel and running at the same temperature. I put in 36 gallons of 93 octane to mix with a little bit of 89 octane leftover from last year I got at the marina.
I did the prop slip calculations with an on-line calculator and with the old numbers of 5800 RPM and 48MPH, I get 5% which is as good as it gets I believe. With the current numbers of 5000 RPM and 28 MPH I’m getting a slip of 36% which is not good. The website says anything over 20% means there is room for improvement, like getting bigger engines or a lower pitch prop. Those numbers seem like they might be consistent with a waterlogged boat but it would have to be a lot of water! I think the motor are doing their job as it takes a lot of power to generate that much slip (I think). The props are stainless steel and perfect.,

A few weeks ago I took out 9 college interns plus another adult besides me and it still planed fine and only slowed down by a couple of mph. That’s consistent with Kirk’s comment about adding a lot of weight for a Canyon trip.

 

[Duncan]

I forgot to mention that I checked the location of the scuppers and the bottom is 1/2” over the water with the boat lightly loaded and no one on board. Unfortunately I don’t remember where that was previously. I will see if I can find any old photos.

 

[Duncan]

"Since you seem to like math, why don't you do a prop slip calculation for both the old and the new data. I'm betting that the slip percentage is similar. No scientific reason, just a gut feeling"

I was thinking about this - if the slip percentage was similar, that might indicate a fuel problem or motor problem where the boat is going slower because the motor is turning slower. My slip percentage has changed a lot from 5% to 36% which is a huge change that I think means the motors are working to push the boat but the boat just ain't going like it should

 

[PointedRose]

I also do not think your boat is waterlogged and would first suspect fuel or engine issues. Ethanol in fuel sitting around in the engine or lines for 2 years may have turned gelatin, clogging something up, or eaten at fuel lines

if there was water logging going on you would have other signs.

also you don’t need old pictures to see where you’re scupper sat, just look at the hull stain from brackish water, it looks unchanged from my perspective

 

[DennisG01]

Compression is fine.

Dump the fuel filters into a clear jar (one for each filter). Let it sit for an hour and then inspect and post pics.

I assume your engine has some type of VST tank with a hi-pressure pump inside? Inspect the inside of the tank and, likely, some type of filter on the hi-pressure pump.

Pull the plugs and inspect.

Monitor fuel pressure while running.

For good measure... take a run with the fuel cap off.

 

[Duncan]

I also do not think your boat is waterlogged and would first suspect fuel or engine issues. Ethanol in fuel sitting around in the engine or lines for 2 years may have turned gelatin, clogging something up, or eaten at fuel lines

if there was water logging going on you would have other signs.

also you don’t need old pictures to see where you’re scupper sat, just look at the hull stain from brackish water, it looks unchanged from my perspective

I drained the fuel prior to the 2-year layup and changed the filters afterwards. The fuel in aux tank now is probably 90% this year and 10% last year and the main tank is probably 80% this year and 20% last year. I run one motor off each tank.

All the hull stain is from this year. I remove that every year before freshening up the bottom paint.

 

[seasick]

I was thinking about this - if the slip percentage was similar, that might indicate a fuel problem or motor problem where the boat is going slower because the motor is turning slower. My slip percentage has changed a lot from 5% to 36% which is a huge change that I think means the motors are working to push the boat but the boat just ain't going like it should

When the boat tops out at 5000 revs, if you run like that for a while do the revs stay steady or do they change up and down?
Something is just not seeming right to me. When you top out at 5k is the hull on plane? If not om plane I could understand the slip percentage but if on plane I am at a loss. Just to cover the bases again, are you certain that the hull is clean? Did you look at it?