300 Marlin - Gen or not to Gen?

[Ralph163]

So...having spent a lot of time looking into this... I find the Jackery interesting, the Bluetti even more so, but there are plenty of issues.

1) the size. 72ah, not much.
2) keeping it ready and charged. apparently the chargers are not really designed for continuous charging.
3) I don't believe it would be grounded.
4) unitized...proprietary and less ability to upgrade/expand

I am leaning towards a Victron system. It's modular, it's safe, it has a built in transfer switch, I can use batteries up to 400ah and add more later, it handles more capacity, I can leaved plugged into shore power, it would be wired into my AC panel, the tech support, faster recharge times, more efficient power conversion, can add DC charging from my motor or even from solar panels...and to start, I can keep the cost not to much more than the jackery. If you get the system up to 12v 400a (24v 200ah) you have some SERIOUS amount of power available to you.I would probably start with 200ah. Add another if the system works the way I hope.

I would prefer a gen, but a simply battery, inverter/charger system sounds like a much safer, smarter way to go. If I do go this route, it will be under the supervision of an actual marine electrician. One of the hardest part is finding the optimal battery, I am leaning towards Renology or Battle Born. I would prefer to go 24v...seems safer and more efficient.

My assumption on the Jackery, it would plug into your shore power and function the same.

 

[SkunkBoat]

"2) keeping it ready and charged. apparently the chargers are not really designed for continuous charging."

This is not exactly correct. The Jackery manual states that you can leave the unit charging when not in use.



But, they don't recommend having it charging DURING use as that may reduce battery life.
This complicates setting it up to charge from the motor's DC aux charging. I had not thought about that. That does not preclude using the DC Accessory circiut of the boat to charge the Jackery thru its "Car charger". That would in essence be charging the Jackery from the House Bank that is being charged from the Aux charging cable....did I lose you yet??? So basically you may have added the Jackery to your house bank...unless there is an isolator in the Jackery to prevent current flow back toward the charging source and I would assume that to be the case. now I lost you....

So, there are DC/DC chargers out there that are apparantly a "better" way to charge batteries than directly from the built in Isolator in the motor and "better" than using a VSR/ACR too. Who knew????
Breifly reading through the Renogy.com site, it seems these dc/dc chargers regulate the charge from an Alternator to a main battery and then use regulated power from that battery to charge other batteries. I'm still not sure where in the boat's circiut I would put that. IDK, I've been using the Aux Charging (built-in isolator) for years on Yamahas and Suzukis.

A downside that I see is that the batteries in the Jackery are "not replaceable" and batteries don't last forever even if you rarely use them.

So far I see the Jackery or similar product the most useful for the "couple times a season " use. Its simple. Its portable.
You can have it plugged in in your garage and take it to the boat if you are going to need it. Or, you could have it plugged into your boats shore power to charge when you are not there.
On the larger boats, Marlin and 330 and 370, a generator seems appropriate or a well designed multi-battery system that replaces a generator.

Although possible, I would probably not feed it's OUTPUT through the boat's existing AC circiutry. I would just plug in the coffee maker or microwave directly to the outlet on the unit.
Yes, you could make an adapter to go from the 3 prong outlet of the unit to the 30A AC input of the boat....seems too half-assed even for me....

 

[Ralph163]

From what I have read, the Jackery charger gets VERY hot. It's a tiny little thing with little/none regulation. Whereas the Victron is designed for this and has many safety features. And the Victron DC/DC provides the specific charging profile for LiifePo4 batteries, which is specific. The engine alternator/stator does not. None of the battery manufactures (IE Dakota) suggest charging direct. There are plenty of other good chargers, but XANTRAX and Victron are considered the safest and best. Plus they can provide higher amperage for a quicker charge. But in the end, it really is only the residual amperage from your engine after everything else takes it's bite out that makes it to your battery. You would be surprised how little of a 50a alternator actually makes it to your battery when running. I usually see 4-12 amps after the engine and all the boat equipment/electronics take their share. But there are ways to boost that, ACR's are one way, although they have there own set of issues. Still on the fence about those. Almost pulled them from my boat. Having used their products, you can NEVER go wrong with Victron. They are the best.

Jackery is definitely a quick and easy solution, the price is reasonable, but I feel like my money would be better spent on proper equipment, for safety, convenience and efficiency. I agree with you about plugging the appliances in directly into the jackery, mine as well. It's a cool solution and really would serve a lot of people well. I am simply looking for something more robust. The Bluetti is particularly interesting:

BLUETTI AC200L Portable Power Station | 2,400W 2,048Wh

Get 2,400W AC output with expandable capacity up to 8,192Wh. Recharge to 80% in just 45 minutes using 6 methods. Control easily with the BLUETTI App for efficient, quiet power.

www.bluettipower.com

 

[DennisG01]

Ralph, I mentioned this above and only want to quickly mention it again in case it got missed. While the microwave wouldn't work with the following, you can re-heat things on a simple gas grill (like the Magma) and of course cook on it. You can aslo heat hot water on it and use a french press for coffee (which makes really good coffee!). All of this would be a small fraction of the cost of a genny or an inverter setup. When I had my Sea Ray Sundancer (cruiser style), we would go away for long weekends quite often (family of 4) - we cooked all of our meals on the Magma since it was nicer to cook topsides than to use the galley stovetop and used it for the hot water, as well. Never had a genny. At night, we would use a couple DC fans (if needed), cockpit lights and cabin lights, some stereo use, Vaccuflush head, fresh water pump system and even the fridge would run the entire time we were out... you'd be surprised how long a single group 27 DC battery will last.

Again - just a thought that would be super easy, inexpensive and could totally get the job done.

 

[Ralph163]

Again - just a thought that would be super easy, inexpensive and could totally get the job done.

I totally agree with everything you said except for "a small fraction of the cost of an inverter setup". The Jackery has many benefits over the other options, and in your situation can be the perfect solution. In my previous posts I simply stated what I thought were the cons of the Jackery and the pros of the inverter setup.

As far as cost...lets look at the Renogy. Besides all the pros I mentioned previously, the Renogy 100ah/2000watt setup for $1200 has significantly more capacity than the Jackery' 72ah/1500 watt unit for $1600

I am still looking for a boat with a gen. But if I can't find one, I will likely install a simple Victron lithium battery and Inverter/Charger setup. This thread was to help get people's thoughts out there. And at least for me so far, has been VERY helpful. But there is still a lot more I need to learn before I make a final decision of what's best for me. I learned a lot about Lithium batteries...there are so many details that make each battery, even if their voltage/ah look the same. It's pretty nuts actually.

 

[DennisG01]

I totally agree with everything you said except for "a small fraction of the cost of an inverter setup". The Jackery has many benefits over the other options, and in your situation can be the perfect solution. In my previous posts I simply stated what I thought were the cons of the Jackery and the pros of the inverter setup.

As far as cost...lets look at the Renogy. Besides all the pros I mentioned previously, the Renogy 100ah/2000watt setup for $1200 has significantly more capacity than the Jackery' 72ah/1500 watt unit for $1600

I am still looking for a boat with a gen. But if I can't find one, I will likely install a simple Victron lithium battery and Inverter/Charger setup. This thread was to help get people's thoughts out there. And at least for me so far, has been VERY helpful. But there is still a lot more I need to learn before I make a final decision of what's best for me. I learned a lot about Lithium batteries...there are so many details that make each battery, even if their voltage/ah look the same. It's pretty nuts actually.

I suppose "small" is subjective. But a Magma is about $200 and a french press is about $20. So certainly it's "some" fraction of the inverter. BUT... my point is not to convince you one way or the other - just to present information so you can make a better decision.

Regarding the genny... another factor to consider is resale. It will be easier to sell a boat with a genny than not. That's not said in relation to an inverter - stictly about a boat with or without a genny.

 

[DennisG01]

Here's some interesting reading for you. This is from another boating forum that I belong to. http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php...with-lithium-batteries-and-a-inverter.104774/

 

[Ralph163]

I suppose "small" is subjective. But a Magma is about $200 and a french press is about $20. So certainly it's "some" fraction of the inverter. BUT... my point is not to convince you one way or the other - just to present information so you can make a better decision.

"I suppose "small" is subjective"... Exactly, I tried to explain that to her! ...nevermind, wrong forum! LOL...

When you said "small fraction" I thought you were referring to the Jackery. The Magma Grill/French press idea would never work for me offshore fishing. Yes, it seams the gen helps with resale, but from what I see, there are very few out there with, so the inverter/charger idea is my backup plan...seems like a 24v 200ah battery lasts a long while. Although I will probably start with a 100ah and add another if needed.

 

[Ralph163]

Here's some interesting reading for you. This is from another boating forum that I belong to. http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php...with-lithium-batteries-and-a-inverter.104774/

Interesting...but seems like he is talking about fully integrating it into his house and starting systems. I am looking to keep it more of a separate, stand-alone system. Basically a "de-constructed" Jackery with less cons, more pros (although I am sure that can be debated depending on your needs and expectations).

 

[DennisG01]

Interesting...but seems like he is talking about fully integrating it into his house and starting systems. I am looking to keep it more of a separate, stand-alone system. Basically a "de-constructed" Jackery with less cons, more pros (although I am sure that can be debated depending on your needs and expectations).

Sure, not completely apples to apples. I just figured it was good "info" to add to your thought process... and interesting reading, given what you are doing.

 

[DennisG01]

Yes, it seams the gen helps with resale, but from what I see, there are very few out there with,

FYI, this is par for the course - meaning, there are much less than normal boats, in general, for sale right now - and those that do become available go quickly if they're at least half way decent. It's not a "normal" time to compare available inventory. Or... maybe the ones with the genset are the ones selling very quickly - possibly even before they hit the market.

 

[Ralph163]

FYI, this is par for the course - meaning, there are much less than normal boats, in general, for sale right now - and those that do become available go quickly if they're at least half way decent. It's not a "normal" time to compare available inventory. Or... maybe the ones with the genset are the ones selling very quickly - possibly even before they hit the market.

I have seen plenty of Marlin's for sale. Most at or close to book/market value. Just not many with gens. A local broker told me out of the 30 or so he has sold the past few years, only a handful had gens. Buy yah, boats in good condition always sold fast, that hasn't changed.

 

[DennisG01]

I work in the marine industry - I KNOW boat sales are still crazy! Even halfway decent boats are in high demand - at least in my area. I suspect there may be another variable with the Marlins - if you go back in time "X" number of years, things like a genny were not viewed as being "needed". But as the years go on, it starts to become a requirement. So older boats that were once very popular start to fall out of contention because they don't have the amenities of newer boats. Heck, if you go back "X" number of years, a 20' runabout style boat was very popular with a 4cyl and a V6 would have been fantastic. Now, if you don't have a V8 in it, forget it - value goes down - because people "think they need it" (the V8, that is). When I was younger, we had an 18' CC with a 50HP Merc on it. We skied and tubed on it and were VERY happy! Now a days, you probably can't give that boat away.

 

[Ralph163]

I work in the marine industry - I KNOW boat sales are still crazy! Even halfway decent boats are in high demand - at least in my area. I suspect there may be another variable with the Marlins - if you go back in time "X" number of years, things like a genny were not viewed as being "needed". But as the years go on, it starts to become a requirement. So older boats that were once very popular start to fall out of contention because they don't have the amenities of newer boats. Heck, if you go back "X" number of years, a 20' runabout style boat was very popular with a 4cyl and a V6 would have been fantastic. Now, if you don't have a V8 in it, forget it - value goes down - because people "think they need it" (the V8, that is). When I was younger, we had an 18' CC with a 50HP Merc on it. We skied and tubed on it and were VERY happy! Now a days, you probably can't give that boat away.

I don't know, I still see plenty of boats sitting around, either they lack the condition or they are priced to high. The ones in good condition and reasonably priced sell quick. I have been buying boats/selling for quite a while, that has always been the case. Just look at some of the very desirable, yet overpriced boats on THT (Freeman's, See Vee's, etc), that have been sitting unsold. Boats that need a repower? ...forget it. Who would buy that right now when there is a 1-2 year waiting list for motors. But yeah, used cars and boats are going to be in demand for a while to come, there is no doubt, but that should subside soon, in fact, it already appears to be...but let's see..

 

[wbdenamur]

My 2003 Marlin has a gas Koehler 5e gen. Nothing but problems. I am in the process of trashing it and will use a Honda when I need one.

 

[everwhom]

Update: My 2000 watt Mastervolt Inverter/Charger plus 2, 100 amp hour AGM batteries are installed. Original installation thread here: https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/replacing-generator-with-inverter-on-330-express.33556/

 

[Copro]

Buy a 12volt coffee maker. $50 or less

 

[HMBJack]

Good point on the resale value. Totally agree.

I love my Fischer Panda (2006 with 850 hours).

While the FP is certainly not perfect, if you understand their weaknesses and have spare parts they should deliver 2,000 hours of use. Out of necessity, I sort of have become a FP Mechanic (lol).
I can see why GW selected the FP - small size and weight but carries a big punch. I personally can never see myself without one on a 30' or bigger Grady.

That said, inverters have their place in our world. But if you need overnight power offshore or don't want a bunch of non-standard electrical components, it's hard to beat the simplicity of a marine generator. I have always viewed inverters as short term, finite, power. A good marine generator will deliver gobs of power until it runs out of fuel.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of the portable Honda generators due to their oderless exhaust. But I used one when I had a 265 and it did fine. Just not enough power when compared to the FP in my 330. Just sayin...

 

[Legend]

Good point on the resale value. Totally agree.

I love my Fischer Panda (2006 with 850 hours).

While the FP is certainly not perfect, if you understand their weaknesses and have spare parts they should deliver 2,000 hours of use. Out of necessity, I sort of have become a FP Mechanic (lol).
I can see why GW selected the FP - small size and weight but carries a big punch. I personally can never see myself without one on a 30' or bigger Grady.

That said, inverters have their place in our world. But if you need overnight power offshore or don't want a bunch of non-standard electrical components, it's hard to beat the simplicity of a marine generator. I have always viewed inverters as short term, finite, power. A good marine generator will deliver gobs of power until it runs out of fuel.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of the portable Honda generators due to their oderless exhaust. But I used one when I had a 265 and it did fine. Just not enough power when compared to the FP in my 330. Just sayin...
[/QU
New Honda 2200 i Generators now have a carbon monoxide detector - it has an auto shutoff feature once the gas is detected in an elevated level.

 

[magicalbill]

Repeat post here, but I agree with HMB and Legend; If my Fischer-Panda Deep-Sixed tomorrow, I'd buy another the next day.

We run the water heater, A/C, Admiral cooks on the stove, the microwave is going...I wouldn't be without my Fischer-Panda.